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Can we have the day off?

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Re: Can we have the day off?

#741

Post by jchw »

llbeansandrice wrote: post #442
jchw wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe that activism actually generally works, and I am skeptical that voting works either. Don't get me wrong. I do vote, and I believe that voting and activism can work, and even still does for a variety of things. But as for fighting against forces of corruption and tyranny, I believe activism is about as useful as an ashtray on a motorcycle. Any grassroots efforts are in a horribly asymmetric battle agai…

Those flock cameras arrived in many places in the US bc people did not show up to public city council meetings to oppose them, aka “activism”.

Locally over here our city councils are overran with people who are anti Flock. Flock's strategy is to sneak their way in as if it is an "emergency". They've got a whole playbook.

Normal activists don't stand a chance against well-funded adversaries.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#742

Post by ipaddr »

petersellers wrote: post #499
slg wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classic American politics right there: Person 1: "We need class solidarity against the billionaires." Person 2: "No, it's the immigrants' fault."

So true. Pick your boogeyman (Muslims/Immigrants/Antifa/Trans/"Marxists"), pump the attack propaganda through all available media channels and hope no one mentions the billionaires. It's been awhile since 9/11 and we've got pretty short memories, so we'll probably cycle back to Muslims soon.

Who they are matters less than if the supply is larger than demand unless you are in politics and want to blame a group.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#743

Post by rexpop »

rhubarbtree wrote: post #697
simulator5g wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh sure, you get free stuff indefinitely if you abuse the system. You sound like that tiktok post about the "infinite free money glitch" that is check fraud.

Interestingly, this is how a lot of rich people make their money. They do something bad and then get the state to bail them out. For example, bankers trading recklessly, taking the bonuses and then leaving govt to sort out the mess, effectively back-paying their bonuses. Another example is privatisation in the UK: scrap all investment, load the company with debt, leave the consumer and govt to sort out the mess. So t…

> The net of law is spread so wide, \ No sinner from its sweep may hide. \ Its meshes are so fine and strong, \ They take in every child of wrong. \ O wondrous web of mystery! \ Big fish alone escape from thee!

-- James Jeffrey Roche (1847 - 1908)

Re: Can we have the day off?

#744

Post by goatlover »

abletonlive wrote: post #611
throwaway63467 wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s been like that for a while, economic gains went to a small fraction of people, before software developers were among those that were on the winning side, now they’re on the losing side. Think about how much the US economy is growing right now and who really profits from that growth. My guess is that 90 % of the growth goes to 10 % of people, with AI maybe 99 % might go to the 1 %. Or who do you think will gain f…

> before software developers were among those that were on the winning side, now they’re on the losing side. are you sure about that? i'm a software engineer and i feel like i'm on the wining side now, even more than before. I'm considering quitting my 500K a year job to go compete against the employers. they seem like dinosaurs to me.

Even if so, should you want that to be how society is organized going forward? Because I think the evidence is societies are worse off when there is too much economic disparity, even if you personally benefit. And the greater the disparity, the more likely for there to be serious unrest in the future.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#745

Post by ipaddr »

slg wrote: post #269
ipaddr wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Classic American politics right there: Person 1: "We need class solidarity against the billionaires." Person 2: "No, it's the immigrants' fault."

Why would it be the immigrants fault? They are just following the rules setup by the billionaires. I wouldn't blame everyone that came to my party and had it shut down for overcrowding but I'll blame the groups that invited them and collected money at the door.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#746

Post by goatlover »

9rx wrote: post #430
jandrese wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really true. Pay raises have lagged behind productivity gains for decades now and the gap is only growing wider.

Pay raises have kept pace with human productivity gains. Robots have pushed productivity well beyond the human capacity. But robots are not willing to work for free either, so...

Humans use robots and computing to be more productive.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#747

Post by 9rx »

goatlover wrote: post #746
9rx wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay raises have kept pace with human productivity gains. Robots have pushed productivity well beyond the human capacity. But robots are not willing to work for free either, so...

Humans use robots and computing to be more productive.

Exactly. Hence why productivity has increased while wages haven't. Wages have increased alongside the productivity increases of those wages, of course, but wages are decidedly for human labor, by very definition, not robot (computing, automation, whatever you want to call it) labor. If you want to capture the value of robots you need to use your human capacity to deploy robots, not to sell your labor.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#748

Post by tracker1 »

First, I don't think the productivity gains are nearly what they are claimed to be, and shouldn't be... I think way to many people are getting really lazy and letting a lot of slop through that they shouldn't. Human review takes time and mental overhead.

I've mentioned a few times, that I actually appreciate an aspect of Claude's 5 hr API window... I generally watch, stop, re-prompt and review what comes out. I'm not running a bunch of separate prompts and instances all at once. I'm using AI to plan and do a lot of work... I am getting a lot more output and a lot more value for that time than I could without it. It takes a toll... and the few times I've hit the window on API usage actually aligns with that toll in when I need a break.

I also assume I'm not going to be productive all day... I'll review mail, checkout articles on HN, comment, etc. I'm generally actively in a productive flow about 5 hours a day... with AI, I can be a lot more productive. That said, my current job is pretty locked down and I'm unable to leverage AI for most things... I've been able to use my own computer to write a few libraries/utils that I can then leverage in-job... but that's about it.

Mental work can be more tiresome than physical work, depending on the individual jobs. You aren't "on" all the time. This isn't a statement against or for a 4 day work week, only countering part of the narrative.

Right now the job market is a mess... developer wages are severely suppressed and almost everything is "contract" based and lacking basic benefits like good medical insurance, vacation time, etc. It pretty much sucks. AI is not a panacea, and it's not a replacement for skilled developers. Not only that, but a junior developer + AI can literally be several steps backward compared to a skilled developer without AI or with.

I'm seeing a lot of cool things happen on GitHub projects I follow, a lot of it allowed by leveraging AI... most of the best stuff not left to AI alone. It's a tool. On the flip side, I do think a lot of major employers need to return to actual employees with actual, meaningful benefits and even start implementing profit sharing... There are a lot of people pushing for outright Communism, and they're winning elections in some places. Just from a CYA point of view, it's time to treat the workforce a little better. I'd rather not have communism become prominent in the US... it won't be pretty.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#749

Post by jandrese »

9rx wrote: post #747
goatlover wrote: post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans use robots and computing to be more productive.

Exactly. Hence why productivity has increased while wages haven't. Wages have increased alongside the productivity increases of those wages, of course, but wages are decidedly for human labor, by very definition, not robot (computing, automation, whatever you want to call it) labor. If you want to capture the value of robots you need to use your human capacity to deploy robots, not to sell your labor.

That sounds like a roundabout way of saying that the capital owners have captured the gains from productivity without increasing the compensation to the workers.

But this belies the fact that the workers had to grow more skilled to operate and maintain those machines. They took on additional costs in education that are not being compensated. They're being asked to get more work done by being higher skilled, but the bosses are collecting all of the additional revenue generated.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#750

Post by cucumber3732842 »

krapp wrote: post #363
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really true but it’s a nice story

It's a nice story and it's true. Weekends, sick days, vacation days, being paid in legal tender and not company scrip, maternity leave, safety regulations, disabled affordance, banning child labor, civil rights and womens' rights (while they lasted) and the minimum wage. All due to socialist activism and a non-zero amount of violence.

Banning child labor is literally the "I'm helping" meme but for government.

Child went away mostly on its own (as did labor by the disabled) because industrialization made all that non-competitive compared to a normal adult operating some machine. Then, once child labor was relegated to a few niches of limited overall economic importance the government showed up and banned it to win a few brownie points from some jerks.

Child labor isn't a success of some socialists 100yr ago. It's a success of some propagandists 100yr ago.

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