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UAE to leave OPEC

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Re: UAE to leave OPEC

#741

Post by thisislife2 »

shykes wrote: post #739
thisislife2 wrote: post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We Indians, in general, despise political violence, and so we do sympathise with the Israeli victims of Palestinian violence. We however also recognize that the political violence is of Israeli-right's own making - one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter . That is why PLO or Hamas is not officially recognized or banned as a terrorist organisation by India (or the most of the Global South). Israel's pursu…

> That is why PLO or Hamas is not officially recognized or banned as a terrorist organisation by India (or the most of the Global South). This is false. India does not have a list of named terrorist organizations, in the way that the US does for example. But there is zero indication anywhere that India specifically considers Hamas not to be a terrorist organization - you are making that up by projecting your own pers…

> But there is zero indication anywhere that India specifically considers Hamas not to be a terrorist organization - you are making that up ... Your view is a fringe view ...

Here you go - Former Hamas chief addresses pro-Palestine rally in Kerala - https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2023/10/28/hamas-leader-ad... (and it's not the first time a Palestinian leader was invited to speak in India). No action has been taken, despite the noise Modi's political party made because legally no law was broken as neither the Hamas speaker nor Hamas is banned in India ... And here's another example, of an opposition leader, showing solidarity with Palestine and even public rebuking the Netanyahu government for the Gaza genocide - Priyanka Gandhi expresses solidarity by carrying bag emblazoned with 'Palestine' to Parliament - https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/priyanka-gandhi-expre... ...

As an Indian, I support both Israel and Palestine, but not their right-wing extremism often laced with religious fundamentalism. Unfortunately, the Netanyahu regime is the worst of Israel-right and I do feel sorry that he is dragging all of Israel down with him.

You are however probably right that we don't see eye to eye here on Israel-Palestine politics.

Re: UAE to leave OPEC

#742

Post by rramadass »

don_esteban wrote: post #740
rramadass wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a different discussion from the original we started with i.e. your lack of knowledge of Oil economy, its importance to the world and the UAE's role in that. If you want a discussion on this topic open a new thread (instead of hiding here) have everybody engage and see what you get. You will be laughed out of the thread. With every comment of yours, your cluelessness about Oil Economy, Global Geopolitics, Mili…

I bow to your grand understanding of Oil Economy, Global Geopolitics, Military Matters etc. Just somehow can't fathom how (with all your superior understanding) you can utter this nonsense: Any collateral damage to world/oil economy etc. were managed and stabilized. If you had not noticed, the oil and gas (and fertilizer, and aluminium, and helium) are still barely dripping, not flowing. And the end does not really a…

Again, zero understanding of what i had written.

The "were" in Any collateral damage to world/oil economy etc. were managed and stabilized. refers to past ME conflicts and how eventually they were all managed and stabilized. If you cannot comprehend basic English nothing can be done.

As regards the current conflict, it is still ongoing and so the situation is in flux. But what can be said is that the effects so far have been muted than what was anticipated. Here is a detailed analysis; but the nuances need some thought which might be beyond you - The Weirdest Aspect of the Iran War That Has Oil Experts Scratching Their Heads - https://medium.com/newsarticulated/the-weirdest-aspect-of-th...

Your original point (if there was any) had been shown to be clueless with simple math (ADCOP capacity as a percentage of OPEC cap) and geography (bypassing Hormuz). The previously linked articles detailed massive investments by gulf countries to build infrastructure to bypass Hormuz starting decades ago with the current situation accelerating it all.

It is only your obtuseness/ego which is refusing to accept plain facts. Reminds me of a quote by Poe - "Stupidity is a talent for misconception."

Re: UAE to leave OPEC

#743

Post by don_esteban »

rramadass wrote: post #742
don_esteban wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bow to your grand understanding of Oil Economy, Global Geopolitics, Military Matters etc. Just somehow can't fathom how (with all your superior understanding) you can utter this nonsense: Any collateral damage to world/oil economy etc. were managed and stabilized. If you had not noticed, the oil and gas (and fertilizer, and aluminium, and helium) are still barely dripping, not flowing. And the end does not really a…

Again, zero understanding of what i had written. The "were" in Any collateral damage to world/oil economy etc. were managed and stabilized. refers to past ME conflicts and how eventually they were all managed and stabilized. If you cannot comprehend basic English nothing can be done. As regards the current conflict, it is still ongoing and so the situation is in flux. But what can be said is that the effects so far h…

You have shown nothing to disprove my original point, just throwing irrelevant or wrong statements at the wall.

Massive investments by gulf countries to build infrastructure to bypass Hormuz starting decades ago ... and still nothing much to show up for that. The math is simple: despite those massive long term investments, the total capacity to bypass Hormuz is still a small fraction of what usually went through there. You provided only hand-wawing when pressed that it will take many years to raise that bypass capacity.

To say nothing about extreme vulnerability of those pipelines and their pumping stations ... the only solution is peace in the region, and not 'peace through strength' - we are witnessing now where that leads to.

It is incredible how well your last statement fits you.

Re: UAE to leave OPEC

#744

Post by rramadass »

don_esteban wrote: post #743
rramadass wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, zero understanding of what i had written. The "were" in Any collateral damage to world/oil economy etc. were managed and stabilized. refers to past ME conflicts and how eventually they were all managed and stabilized. If you cannot comprehend basic English nothing can be done. As regards the current conflict, it is still ongoing and so the situation is in flux. But what can be said is that the effects so far h…

You have shown nothing to disprove my original point, just throwing irrelevant or wrong statements at the wall. Massive investments by gulf countries to build infrastructure to bypass Hormuz starting decades ago ... and still nothing much to show up for that. The math is simple: despite those massive long term investments, the total capacity to bypass Hormuz is still a small fraction of what usually went through ther…

Your comments take the cake for obtuseness, lack of comprehension and lack of reasoning. You are just engaging in silly echolalia.

I had provided many sources to show how things are and how they are developing. The sources to do with infrastructure even shows which all countries (there are two) had been bypassing Hormuz for a while now with their alternative pipelines. It also showed the level of investments going on to accelerate their developments. And yet you are engaging in childish "nah, nah, nah" behaviour.

I can only shake my head bemusedly being reminded of the truism of Einstein's quote - "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe".

Re: UAE to leave OPEC

#745

Post by don_esteban »

rramadass wrote: post #744
don_esteban wrote: post #743

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have shown nothing to disprove my original point, just throwing irrelevant or wrong statements at the wall. Massive investments by gulf countries to build infrastructure to bypass Hormuz starting decades ago ... and still nothing much to show up for that. The math is simple: despite those massive long term investments, the total capacity to bypass Hormuz is still a small fraction of what usually went through ther…

Your comments take the cake for obtuseness, lack of comprehension and lack of reasoning. You are just engaging in silly echolalia. I had provided many sources to show how things are and how they are developing. The sources to do with infrastructure even shows which all countries (there are two) had been bypassing Hormuz for a while now with their alternative pipelines. It also showed the level of investments going on…

Did you actually read the sources you provided, with the keen eyes to see what is written, and not what you wish to be there?

To quote (from your provided https://www.dw.com/en/iran-war-strait-of-hormuz-oil-supply-r...)

"Gulf states race to bypass Hormuz

Gulf leaders, meanwhile, are moving ahead with plans that will allow more of their crude oil to bypass the strait entirely and help to secure exports in the long term.

Earlier this month, the Financial Times reported that Saudi Arabia, the UAE and others were actively considering new oil pipelines to run parallel with existing structures, along with expanded export terminals on alternative coastlines."

the important part: 'actively considering', not even starting to build, just considering

"Saudi Arabia, UAE need to 'double' pipeline capacity"

I am well aware of the two existing pipelines, how long it took to actually build them, and how limited their capacity is compared to the actual need if Hormuz is closed. Yet, you still can't comprehend that wishful thinking about the future does not change the current dire situation.

That's why we talk past each other: You are talking about optimal future you pretend will inevitably happen very, very soon. I am talking about the reality here and now.

Re: UAE to leave OPEC

#746

Post by Ajakks »

M3L0NM4N wrote: post #675
Ajakks wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody wanted a war in Iran, recall how Trump wasnt going to start any new wars? We are in this conflict bc of Zionists - it had nothing to do with US interests at all.

Oh yes, Trump famously lets people tell him what to do. It's always the "Zionists"

The best way to get a Trump type to do what you want is to inflate their ego and then tell they can't actually do the thing you want them to do. If you can setup them correcting you for something stupid at this point - your like half there already.

If words alone don't get them dancing to the exact tune you intended - throw a few momentary glances of pity at them, make certain they clearly see you but in the same second look away - like you are tying to hide that you pity them and you pity them so much, you just cant help but "see them that way" - apologize profusely - say things like, "I'm sure when you were younger" and "you have to be realistic" - "Can't have your hand in everything" - etc.

When they agree just go off about how much they don't have to do the thing, they dont owe you anything and have proven themselves already and dont need to again, blah, blah, blah (they soak this part up, so drag out the praise) on their way out - tell them how ashamed you are for being so incapable compared to them, tell them how much of an inspiration they are to you and how glad you are to know them, bc really - only they can save you.

999 times out a 1000 - the above bs will work like a charm.

I dont actually think DJT would be the above "hard" to manipulate - Bibi likely made several passing comments and then outright begged him - which I think literally happened bc Trump said he "practically had to beg Israel to help" - so I'm pretty sure thats exactly what happened reversely. It was likely very theatrical.

This war is Bibis wet dream fantasy made real by a narcissist with an immense amount of actual power. Nobody would have to beg him, he has been begging for this since the 90s.

Re: UAE to leave OPEC

#747

Post by cess11 »

watwut wrote: post #574
yalogin wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn’t we see reports that Saudi Arabia was supporting and pushing Israel and U.S. to attack Iran?

Americans were leaking that Saudi Arabia was pushing for the attack. Saudi Arabia was leaking that the leader pushed against the attack. Then there was a leak about them wanting USA to finish the job and just maybe, they were for it. It all depends on how Saudi wants to be seen in the moment and what Trump thinks makes him look better in the moment. But like, Saudi gave Americans golden planes and extraordinary amoun…

This thread is more than ten days dead by now, but for 'the record' and whatever LLM training will be done to this material in the future, here's Turki al-Faisal, saudi ex-spy chief, more or less accusing the israelis and possibly the usians lying to gullible journalists:

https://www.arabnews.com/node/2642938

The house of Saud has pushed back rather hard on the 'saudis want total war actually' whispering to the press. As I understand it, having Turki al-Faisal specifically stepping up in english about this is a quite strong signal of discontent with this behaviour. Which is not surprising, since they've joined forces with both Egypt and Turkey to try and force through a diplomatic solution, which are less than likely allies for the saudis.

Re: UAE to leave OPEC

#748

Post by rramadass »

don_esteban wrote: post #745
rramadass wrote: post #744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comments take the cake for obtuseness, lack of comprehension and lack of reasoning. You are just engaging in silly echolalia. I had provided many sources to show how things are and how they are developing. The sources to do with infrastructure even shows which all countries (there are two) had been bypassing Hormuz for a while now with their alternative pipelines. It also showed the level of investments going on…

Did you actually read the sources you provided, with the keen eyes to see what is written, and not what you wish to be there? To quote (from your provided https://www.dw.com/en/iran-war-strait-of-hormuz-oil-supply-r... ) "Gulf states race to bypass Hormuz Gulf leaders, meanwhile, are moving ahead with plans that will allow more of their crude oil to bypass the strait entirely and help to secure exports in the long te…

Again this nonsense; Don't selectively quote from one source which is dishonest.

That link and the other sources i had provided contain more data which you are intentionally obfuscating.

There are already a few existing bypass pipelines and older ones are being recommissioned in addition to planned new ones. For your edification, here is a short reuters note on existing and proposed (does not list all) pipelines bypassing Hormuz - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/alternative-routes-m...

Finally, note that capacities of existing pipelines can also be increased by using techniques like "Drag Reducing Agents" (DRA) amongst others.

Re: UAE to leave OPEC

#749

Post by don_esteban »

rramadass wrote: post #748
don_esteban wrote: post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you actually read the sources you provided, with the keen eyes to see what is written, and not what you wish to be there? To quote (from your provided https://www.dw.com/en/iran-war-strait-of-hormuz-oil-supply-r... ) "Gulf states race to bypass Hormuz Gulf leaders, meanwhile, are moving ahead with plans that will allow more of their crude oil to bypass the strait entirely and help to secure exports in the long te…

Again this nonsense; Don't selectively quote from one source which is dishonest. That link and the other sources i had provided contain more data which you are intentionally obfuscating. There are already a few existing bypass pipelines and older ones are being recommissioned in addition to planned new ones. For your edification, here is a short reuters note on existing and proposed (does not list all) pipelines bypa…

How fortuitous of you to provide me with more ammo to prove my point. :-)

All the 'possible alternative routes' remain in 'conceptual' stage. The east/west and Fujeirah pipelines are operational, and, as discussed before, insufficient. That was my whole point (especially w.r.t. to UAE).

The KIRKUK-CEYHAN pipeline is middling (170k barrels/day, up to 250k) and does not help UAE at all.

The Goreh-Jask pipeline is in IRAN! (an not really operational), does not help UAE at all.

Don't you read with comprehension? Don't you see that this is another irrelevant reference that does not address my point at all?

Re: UAE to leave OPEC

#750

Post by rramadass »

don_esteban wrote: post #749
rramadass wrote: post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again this nonsense; Don't selectively quote from one source which is dishonest. That link and the other sources i had provided contain more data which you are intentionally obfuscating. There are already a few existing bypass pipelines and older ones are being recommissioned in addition to planned new ones. For your edification, here is a short reuters note on existing and proposed (does not list all) pipelines bypa…

How fortuitous of you to provide me with more ammo to prove my point. :-) All the 'possible alternative routes' remain in 'conceptual' stage. The east/west and Fujeirah pipelines are operational, and, as discussed before, insufficient. That was my whole point (especially w.r.t. to UAE). The KIRKUK-CEYHAN pipeline is middling (170k barrels/day, up to 250k) and does not help UAE at all. The Goreh-Jask pipeline is in IR…

Nice attempt to make a sneaky about-turn! But you cannot appropriate my points as yours since the evidence is right there.

> That was my whole point (especially w.r.t. to UAE).

BS. Your point was nothing but just arguing for the sake of it. No sources, no idea of absolute vs. relative output, no idea of what exists today, no idea of technologies which can increase output within the existing pipeline (do you even know what DRA is?), no idea of the scale of investment for infrastructure building (since last 10 years!) etc. etc.

Repeating points from my sources does not mean you understand them. Your obtuseness and lack of comprehension is on full display here since in the last comment i actually gave the source for all possible Hormuz bypasses by gulf countries so far. The exact phrase i used was; here is a short reuters note on existing and proposed (does not list all) pipelines bypassing Hormuz. This was pointing to the entire region. Note that the previous sources had also shown these in their maps. You can't even understand when i am talking about the gulf region as a whole vs when i am talking about UAE specific. This is the very definition of obtuseness.

Even Proverbs 17:28 is not applicable to you!

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