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Banned in California

bannedincalifornia.org

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741–749 of 749 posts

Re: Banned in California

#741

Post by chrisg23 »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #734
Merovius wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There was no "drilling is good for the environment" narrative. … > Oil drilling actually made the water cleaner.

For it to be a "narrative", there would need to be an additional claim that this specific case and context, which is factual, generalizes to most unrelated cases. That is not in evidence. Thinking that this was an attempt to create a narrative is a failure of reading comprehension. This insistence that acknowledgement of facts has an ideological narrative is a pernicious strain of anti-science thinking.

"This insistence that acknowledgement of facts has an ideological narrative is a pernicious strain of anti-science thinking."

That is very well put. This should be added to the general list of fallacies in argument, and like the other ones (the slippery slope, hasty generalization, Post hoc ergo propter hoc, etc.) more general awareness should exist about these.

The current wave of anti-science, anti-logic, rejection of objective data, etc. is like nothing I've experienced in my lifetime. This is a subjective observation, maybe it has always been this way and I never paid attention because I was caught up in whatever I used to be caught up in.

Re: Banned in California

#742

Post by mint5 »

tonymet wrote: post #733
epistasis wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a republic and a democracy, but every person I've heard say "it's a republic" erroneously believes that the US is not a democracy, and that republics can't be a democracy, because somebody told them that once and they liked the sound of it without ever checking it. So, who's mincing words?

[flagged]

Hey you seem puzzled by the Republic vs democracy concepts so I’ll throw you a bone. Here’s a clear explainer that will solve your confusion: https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/democracy-and-republ...

If you don’t have time to read it, the short answer is the USA is both a republic and democracy!

Re: Banned in California

#744

Post by Merovius »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #734
Merovius wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There was no "drilling is good for the environment" narrative. … > Oil drilling actually made the water cleaner.

For it to be a "narrative", there would need to be an additional claim that this specific case and context, which is factual, generalizes to most unrelated cases. That is not in evidence. Thinking that this was an attempt to create a narrative is a failure of reading comprehension. This insistence that acknowledgement of facts has an ideological narrative is a pernicious strain of anti-science thinking.

To be clear, I have no skin in the game here. I thought the point you made sounded plausible and as I have zero experience or expertise, I wouldn't argue against it.

I just thought it's ridiculous - and kind of funny - to deny making the claim you literally made. I'm not sure you have a lot of legs to stand on, accusing others of "anti-science thinking" and a "failure of reading comprehension" when asking us to ignore the clear, textual evidence of that contradiction.

> For it to be a "narrative", there would need to be an additional claim that this specific case and context, which is factual, generalizes to most unrelated cases.

Says who? That seems a very narrow and unusual definition of what makes a "narrative", bent to your purpose. It seems to me, a "narrative" in common parlance just means "telling a story" or "relaying a sequence of events". I honestly have never seen someone use the word to imply generalization (doesn't mean no one ever did, of course).

In any case, given that you responded to a comment talking about the two examples of Texas and Hawaii with an example about California and an "actually", it seems pretty fair to me to say, that you even fulfilled this artificially narrowed definition.

I mean, come on, you have got to admit that you have at least been unclear, if you didn't intend to make this argument. Instead of just defensively flinging insults.

Re: Banned in California

#745

Post by temp8830 »

kardianos wrote: post #333
rini17 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Central/Eastern European here. Our labor costs are comparable or even lower than China today. And the manufacturing is still struggling. So it's not only that.

That, and you have to ensure your energy costs (power) are low and you have a secure source of raw materials. I'm not an expert, but from what I've heard, the economic region over there has been doing a poor job on both those fronts. Furthermore, you have to talk about regulation vs safety. The EU has regulation. Maybe too much. There are also network effects. Your plant that is energy intensive is closing? Now other…

There's also that large scale effort ongoing to make those energy costs higher and take those raw materials away.

And even still - there's a lot of manufacturing in Easter Europe. Go to IKEA or an appliance or auto store. You might be surprised to find where things are made these days. Often they'll say "made in EU" instead of the actual country name though.

Re: Banned in California

#746

Post by tonymet »

mint5 wrote: post #742
tonymet wrote: post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Hey you seem puzzled by the Republic vs democracy concepts so I’ll throw you a bone. Here’s a clear explainer that will solve your confusion: https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/democracy-and-republ... If you don’t have time to read it, the short answer is the USA is both a republic and democracy!

Merriam Webster settled it!

Re: Banned in California

#747

Post by unbalancedevh »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #341
unbalancedevh wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I had a button that would wipe out the entire Amazon jungle and replace it with a world class high technology industry, I wouldn't even think twice before pressing it. I used to think this way, but I've come to realize that it's very short-sighted. It's not sustainable, and we're already seeing how unchecked industrialization over the last couple centuries is leading to unintended/undesirable effects on our heal…

> It's not sustainable You know what's not sustainable? Exponential growth fueled by credit. Banks loaning money at nearly zero percent interest. Money that gets loaned out, spent, deposited back into the bank and loaned out again , and again , exponentially, until a ludicrously huge financial callstack is created. This financial callstack wants to unwind. It can only do so safely by the payment of debts. At some poi…

> If you want to solve the problem, you need to go to the source.

Which is precisely why it's so short-sighted to try to solve your problem by "wiping out the entire Amazon jungle and replacing it with a world class high technology industry." If you're going to have a magic button to solve problems, then why not use it wisely, instead of propagating the spiral towards destruction?

> The simple reality is....

True -- there are no magic buttons. The reality is that people with wealth and power use them to take finite global resources and leverage them to ensure they they stay wealthy and powerful. That is implicitly not sustainable, as well as being questionably moral. It's not possible to avoid being part of the system, but you don't have to actively make it worse. You can advocate for fairer alternatives, or at least not wish for the destruction of entire major global ecosystems.

Re: Banned in California

#748

Post by thephyber »

jjmarr wrote: post #132
thephyber wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You act as though California is no longer one of the largest populations or one of the largest economies. The “snowball fallacy” is a fallacy because there is no reason California s can’t swing the regulatory pendulum back the other direction if there is too much economy / freedom impacted.

When I took a machining course, the instructor sat in the corner and showed us YouTube videos in Mandarin with English subtitles to teach us the equipment. We are never going to catch up.

You are making lots of projections from a single anecdote and conflating a state’s policies/economy with that of a country of 25x the population.

Detroit was once one of the US’s largest population cities, at nearly 2.5 million residents in the late 1960s, falling to less than 1 million by the 2010s. On this scale, California is still in the peak days of the 1960s, but we aren’t showing any current signs of shrinking. Maybe AI will be the catalyst for massive job losses, but that’s for the future to unfold.

Machining is a low value part of the economic supply chain, like sweat shop clothing. While I don’t want to lose it, it’s being dominated by countries (China, Taiwan) which are willing to throw MASSIVE money at the industry. TSMC was literally a whole-of-country effort to centralize the entire world’s supply chain of cutting edge semiconductors on one island. China is winning because they have cut-throat competition between companies and they don’t slow down for legal concerns such as regulation or intellectual property. That is only going to last for a certain amount of time before people will demand better living environments (which is partly why they have such a terrible fertility rate).

Re: Banned in California

#749

Post by vablings »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #676
inigyou wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A factory isn't made of workers who pick up something and move it from A to B all day.

Frankly, that doesn't need a robot, it needs a concert belt, maybe a hopper.

Robots are great for this kind of work because they require little engineering work and modifications to the base machine. There are now many old manual machines used for various machining operations that can be completely robot tended with a palette.

You don't even need manufacturer support or access to the PLC. You want to start the machine? Just have the 6axis robot hit the start button lol

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