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The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

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Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#741

Post by wat10000 »

asdf_snar wrote: post #736
wat10000 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would there be a need to associate my ticket to my identity?

Just replying here in case it's more visible, but: - what if you're on a no-fly list? wanted criminals? - underage?

I don’t think a no-fly list should exist. Either a person has committed a crime and should be prosecuted, or not. It doesn’t make sense to me to say, you’re too dangerous to be allowed on a plane but not dangerous enough to put in jail.

Catching wanted criminals would be nice, but that’s not considered sufficient justification in other places. Requiring an ID to enter the grocery store would help catch wanted criminals too, but few think that would be wise.

I don’t think kids flying when they shouldn’t be is an actual problem. You’d still need a ticket, which costs a substantial amount of money.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#742

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

jMyles wrote: post #713
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so? The behavior of these auditors is not speech in any meaningful sense; they're not trying to communicate any message, they're just trying to make people around them uncomfortable. It's just hard to draw a clear line that would prohibit their behavior without chilling lawful speech. Right now I don't think there are that many First Amendment auditors around, so there's not much point in passing new la…

> The behavior of these auditors is not speech in any meaningful sense; I didn't suggest it was speech; it's press, no? Again, I don't have enough context to cast judgment about them being assholes or violating some other law (like harassment, etc) - I don't support that _at all_. However, the basic right to document one's surroundings in public is absolutely essential to liberty, especially now.

No, it's not press either. First Amendment auditors do things like this: https://www.independent.com/2025/07/09/first-amendment-audit...

You say "harassment", but that's precisely the problem. Many things that any reasonable person would identify as harassment are protected speech under the First Amendment. So these auditors go around harassing people, knowing that they're causing people emotional distress, because they're bullies who want to make people feel bad.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#743

Post by aboardRat4 »

adastra22 wrote: post #729
aboardRat4 wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely New York has enough police stations to visit and declare a loss of ID.

IDs are a state-level concern in the US federal system. California IDs are issued by California. It’s like going into a Spanish government building to get your Belgian passport replaced. They will have no records of you, and nothing to do.

>It’s like going into a Spanish government building to get your Belgian passport replaced.

The police are not expected to replace the ID. They are expected to give you a proof that you have indeed lost one. In fact Russian embassy won't give you a "returnee permit" unless you go to a Spanish police station and declare your loss of a document.

Even foreign police cannot be expected to just generate documents on a whim.

In the US states don't have embassies, but surely a police station in New York can ask the registration office in California to send them your picture by WhatsApp and have at least a vague kind of proof that you are who you claim to be.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#744

Post by adastra22 »

asdf_snar wrote: post #735
adastra22 wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How does anyone associate your ticket to your identity? Why does anyone in this picture need to associate my ticket with my identity?

Just replying here in case it's more visible, but: - what if you're on a no-fly list? wanted criminals? - underage?

I'm not of the opinion that any of those should be valid reasons to prevent someone from boarding a plane.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#745

Post by AdamN »

ibejoeb wrote: post #604
AdamN wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traffic signs are readable by almost anybody regardless of English language skills. A vision test is much more safety-valid than an English language test.

I disagree that traffic signs are readable regardless of language skills. Yes, it's just a matter of developing recognition for simple pictorial signs. You just have to learn it. If I put a French "No Vehicles" sign in Florida, nobody is going to have a clue what it means, even though there are no words on it, and that's dangerous. Not recognizing or incorrectly interpreting "Crash I-9 N/B Exp Right 2 Lanes Closed Me…

That level of English would be considered below A1. Just being in the US for a few months would give you that level of English even without any other education. So you're conflating "can you read about 2 dozen English words" with passing an English exam - let's say B1.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#746

Post by mlrtime »

int_19h wrote: post #730
mlrtime wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When all you see is color, everything different is racism. I'm the whitest white person you'll find, white bread and turkey sandwich. I get screened all the time. Most of the time the agents are not white, WTF would I blame the color of their skin?

Many ICE agents are Latino but it doesn't stop them racially profiling other Latinos. When it comes to customs & border, it's more about being "ethnically terrorist", which is more so Middle Eastern than Black in US at this particular moment in time.

Not everything in the world is about ICE. It is a hot topic right now, but is like 0.001% of security/law enforcement, profiling etc..

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#747

Post by lbschenkel »

wtcactus wrote: post #574
dzogchen wrote: post #464

Fun fact, I rarely have to show my ID when flying in the EU. But what I don’t understand is why so many people don’t have an ID in the US. Seems like one of the very basic service governments should provide.

That’s completely false. You ALWAYS have to show your ID card to fly in the EU. Always. Seriously, just stop trying to use us to justify silly arguments about the USA. Yes, Europeans must show ID to travel, must absolutely show ID to vote (it would just be ridiculous if we didn’t) and getting the ID costs us money and must be renewed every 10 years (and paid for).

This is not true. The airline has the right to ask for it but in practice this is not really done -- or let me rephrase, not consistently done.

I fly intra-Schengen flights at least twice a year. I had to show ID sometimes before COVID but I never had to show ID after that, it actually caught my attention as anybody could have travelled in my place. I do online check-in, drop the bags, go through security, and show the boarding pass. Last time was three months ago, and once again: no ID.

From the top of my mind I can say that I travelled from/to Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Poland, Spain, Portugal in the last few years and I didn't need to present any ID to board the plane.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#748

Post by mft_ »

mlsu wrote: post #689
mft_ wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A large portion, maybe even the majority, of travelers simply won't feel safe without it. I've had and overheard multiple conversations at the airport where somebody felt uncomfortable boarding a plane because they saw the screening agent asleep at the desk. I’d hazard that this may be true now , but this feeling was created by the same “security measures” we’re discussing. Anyway, such major population-wide measur…

> If you start imposing laws or other practices every time a group of people feel “uncomfortable”, the world will quickly grind to a halt. I mean, yes, quite an apt description of our reality. This has basically been the modus operandi of the whole of American society for the last 3 decades. Can't have your kids riding bikes in the neighborhood. Can't build something on your own property yourself without 3 rounds of…

It's an interesting thought experiment to consider how you would organise your ideal society.

I lived in Switzerland for a time and there are many notorious rules (e.g. don't shower or flush your toilet after 10pm; don't recycle glass out of working hours) governing day-to-day behaviour which initially seem ridiculous and intrusive. However, what you quickly realise is that many of these are rooted in a simple cultural approach of "live your life as you wish, just don't make other people's life worse" - an approach I came to appreciate.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#749

Post by ibejoeb »

mmooss wrote: post #663
ibejoeb wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about his testimony on this particular issue. In fact, it does not appear that he has given any. It's about his qualifications to potentially testify. Even so, in American courts (in which he has previously qualified,) the qualification process is adversarial and involves both direct and cross-examination, so if he wasn't actually qualified, the opposing party would certainly argue as much.

The reality of expert witnesses is not that they are authoritative sources outside the courtroom, but witnesses for one party. It's a job - sometimes for people who didn't find much success in their field - and they are paid by the party that calls them to testify. Everything in a US courtroom is adversarial; every witness is cross-examined and their credibility can be questioned.

>witnesses for one party

>every witness is cross-examined and their credibility can be questioned

I think we're talking about different stages. The determination of his qualifications happens before he can be a witness for one party. I'm talking about voir dire. Before we even get him on the stand, there's a separate hearing to determine if he can even be an expert witness, and the opposing party can challenge.

Anyway, there is no ongoing action that I can find. It's only just come into effect, so that's to be expected. As far as an authoritative source for the argument: the person we're discussing is actually the author.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#750

Post by Anvoker »

keeda wrote: post #358
caseysoftware wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So it was never about security at all then, was it? Never was. I flew every other week prior to covid and haven't once been through the scanners. For the first ~6 years, I opted out and got pat down over and over again. Then I realized I could even skip that. Now at the checkpoint, I stand at the metal detector. When they wave me to the scanner, I say "I can't raise my arms over my head." They wave me through the m…

> The TSA was NEVER about security. It was designed as a jobs program and make it look like we were doing something for security. To a great extent, it is security, even if it's mostly security theater, in the sense that it is security theater that people want . A large portion, maybe even the majority, of travelers simply won't feel safe without it. I've had and overheard multiple conversations at the airport where…

One issue is that security theater creates demand for itself. Do things that induce worry and a tendency towards paranoia in the more susceptible parts of the population and then you will gradually raise the general alertness of the population. This then manufactures a desire for these measures. It largely rides off of people's general unwillingness to entertain just how many of the measures are ineffective or nonsensical. "It can't all be pointless. Surely some of it must make us safer." It's not an unreasonable belief in itself, but everyone having that attitude lets security theater grow cancerously.
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