Ahaha.
Ha ha ha ha ha.
I mean, keep buying their phones or whatever.
Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app
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Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app
#742The regulator must step in now and allow installing applications outside of the AppStore! We are witnessing in real-time what a monopoly and a walled garden leads to.
I'm not betting the US to do this right now. But look at the EU... Alternative app stores are allowed (forced by EU regulations), and it already lead to lower fees.
The vast majority of people will continue find and install (and pay for) stuff via the AppStore.
Let this be a cautionary tale for Google's plans with Android (developer verification, etc).
Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app
#743I’ve heard it said that monopolies aren’t a flaw of the system—they’re its product. What else could perpetual, cutthroat competition lead to? This isn’t an unintended consequence. In every new era, even when an industry is disrupted or reinvented, a small number of dominant companies work aggressively to prevent real upheaval—by acquiring smaller competitors, engaging in regulatory capture, and shaping the rules in their favor. Historically, governments have often served the interests of their corporate patrons. The system itself is built for maximal extraction, and there is no “invisible hand” waiting in the wings to protect consumers. There are no evil and good CEOs, just cogs in this machine doing what they're incentivized to do, accumulate.
Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app
#744Sometimes I think the 30% was supposed to be 3% originally, and no one noticed the decimal was in the wrong place when they shipped it, and then people paid it anyway, so they kept it. 30% is just so unreasonable that it would be totally understandable if someone would believe this.
In 2008, the app store was launching, and physical software was still sold at Targets, Walmarts and other large retailers. A 30% margin was roughly what retailers would make off of physical software sales. By setting the App Store to be the same, Apple was signaling to retailers that they were not trying to undercut their margin, and keep a healthy relationship with them.
It was 2008; "big box" software was largely seen as obsolete to the vast majority of developers. Marketing was done online, and the benefit of investing in retail had stopped outweighing the consequences. Online updates quickly became the norm, and service features supplanted point-of-sale business model (much like Apple's double-dip into microtransaction profits).
Apple chose 30% because they knew they weren't a retailer. You can hunt for a cheaper Diablo II copy online or at Wal-Mart, but not on iPhone.
Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app
#745Earlier quoted context omitted.
>What next, should apple take a 30% cut of my rent because I found my apartment on the Craigslist app? Should they take a 30% of my train ticket that I purchased using the Safari app? Sure they could, and usage of those products to purchase goods would nominally drop to 0%. People do not care about a lot of things, but they do care about losing money.
Apple would then force the with-IAP price to be the same as the without-IAP price so that they get a 30% cut of your rent regardless. You may be underestimating their willingness to tax all economic activity
While this would obviously be harmful to the consumer, I don't see this as plausible.
Amazon was able to achieve this by positioning themselves as the primary distributor of the goods in question. Apple is in no position to leverage a monopoly over fiat transer or housing supply.
With regard to municipal transportation, perhaps they are edging closer with Apple Pay, NFC, Wallet, etc.. but I can't imagine municipalities supporting, or constituents accepting, a tax on their existing taxes.
Of course, maybe Apple.gov is the long game. Hard to say whether that would be better or worse that the status quo..
Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app
#746Didn't apple lose the case brought against them by Epic for this very reason? Are they still operating illegally against the order of the court?[0]
[0]: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/20...
Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app
#747I’ve heard it said that monopolies aren’t a flaw of the system—they’re its product. What else could perpetual, cutthroat competition lead to? This isn’t an unintended consequence. In every new era, even when an industry is disrupted or reinvented, a small number of dominant companies work aggressively to prevent real upheaval—by acquiring smaller competitors, engaging in regulatory capture, and shaping the rules in t…
There is no monopoly here though. Android makes up a pretty substantial proportion of users. That users continue to use Apple devices despite this kind of greed (and that people on HN cheered when Apple defeated Epic in court) shows that users don't care, which is unfortunate.
Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app
#748Earlier quoted context omitted.
You could make the argument that Patreon isn't much more than a banking app. It just focuses on the receiver of the money than the sender. I think Apple is slowly killing apps with this policy. Everybody will slowly move to "web only" as 30% would kill their ability to compete with anybody else. This will likely be much stronger in countries where iPhones do not have the same market share as in the US.
Apple users seem to be fine with everything being much more expensive. Not only the 30% apple tax itself, developers know Apple users pay more and specify higher prices on Apple.
30% is also the cut google takes on the google play store. This is not an apple only issue. This is a regulatory one.
Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app
#749Earlier quoted context omitted.
Chrome, Windows and Lenovo don't have the payment system baked in, with all the consumer protections that come with it. I'm not entirely pro-Apple percentage in this argument, but I think people often dismiss the magical thing that Apple created with the app store and their payment/subscription system. The rest of the world keeps ripping users off, and Apple's walled garden is as protected a thing as it gets. I've go…
> Chrome, Windows and Lenovo don't have the payment system baked in, with all the consumer protections that come with it. Chrome definitely does, at least to a degree. But you have the option to not use it, because guess what? You're supposed to own the device.
Chrome doesn't do this, Chrome has a wallet and you're still stuck talking to your credit card company.
It looks like you may have edited your comment, but the issues of Apple's app store payment percentage, the open/closed nature of their appstore, and the ability to sideload apps are 3 separate issues.
Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app
#750Apple’s App Store profits on commissions from digital sales Revenue $32 B Operating Costs $7 B [1] Estimated Profit $25 B Operating Margin ~78% [1] R&D, security, hosting, human review, and including building and maintaining developer tools Xcode, APIs, and SDKs. Apple could take just 7% cut and still make 20% profits. Fun Fact: During the Epic trial, it was revealed that Apple's profit margins on the App Store were…
Well said. Glad to see this at the top. Google also takes 30%. And I think steam too. This is 100% a regulatory issue.