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AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

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Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#741

Post by larodi »

huimang wrote: post #564
larodi wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely - every reverb is impulse response, lots of other effects are effectively some sort of convolution with neural networks that we otherwise call AI. Arpegiattors are AI and the random jumps between patterns in Ableton are a Markov Chain. What does Bandcamp really mean? Perhaps sampling others voices and music is barred, not these mini-AIs that are everywhere ?

Please stop being intentionally obtuse. Convolution, arpeggiators, impulse responses are not at all comparable to output from generative AI / LLMs.

Yeah, and oscillators ringing together in an FFT choir based on notes from a diffused image is absolutely, totally not an AI, just algorithms. Really, why be so rude, given you understand the math behind it? Obtuse is not a nice word, not something I would say to people at random. Because, you see, back in the day generative grammars were called AI, so were so many other discreet structures which are employed in music generation, sorry production, on an everyday basis.

Algorithmic progression generation IS IN USE for years, sorry you didn't mention, or perhaps you don't listen that much to everyday radio. Markov chains, constraint solvers, and rule-based harmony live in many VSTs... the fact there are so many "experimentors" out dare winding knobs to match a pleasurable pattern, does not change the fact they be 100% ignorant about the 'deux ex machina'.

I'm surrounded by producers having absolutely no clue about the vast amount of actual AI and actual probabilistic algorithms that make their "unique" sounds possible. And all of them are 100% ignorant of what AI means when they say it, because they don't mean a specific thing.

How is this not AI? Or one needs an transformer-based model to call it AI? This whole story did not start an year or two ago, you may be late for history class though. The fact there's been this moving marketing concept of what "AI" actually is, does not change the reality of most modern music (including acoustic) at some point of the production process getting artificially enhanced by honestly super-complex systems that are intelligent enough to do what otherwise would take 20x more effort to get right.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#742

Post by jatora »

Anamon wrote: post #615
jatora wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i was moreso responding to this statement: "What matters is that the song is actually an expression of humanity, not the tools used to make it." which is complete nonsense

Why do you think it is nonsense? Making music involves writing and arranging the score, playing the instruments, writing lyrics, singing, recording, mastering... each of these steps is hard work, takes practice, and by that fact alone will be unique to every person because, in some way, their whole life experience flows into it. GenAI music is writing a few words about how you'd like the result to sound. That's it. T…

do you now see how reductive you are of the technology behind genAI? by reading your own comment does it not drive the point home that reducing music appreciation to the quoted comment is also hilariously reductive?

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#743

Post by jaredcwhite »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #410
olivierestsage wrote: post #16

Funny to see this right now. Spotify's promotion of AI music bothered me so much that it has actually pushed me to Bandcamp and the practice of buying music again. It's really fun to build a collection knowing you're supporting the artists, download FLAC files, organize your little "collection" page ... Feels like a renaissance in my relationship with music, the most fun I've had since what.cd. Anyway, love this stan…

Best part of owning music is importing them to an old version of iTunes and sync'ing to your iPod. I am vindicated in my choice to use an ipod with an aux jack every time Android Auto can't decide whether to connect over USB or bluetooth and just doesn't play audio until I restart the phone and the car...

I took have gone back to using an old Mac laptop lying around, running iTunes, and syncing music to my old iPod Classic. I was surprised that ALAC was supported even way back when, so I can listen to high-res lossless audio!

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#744

Post by chrisjj »

tensor wrote: post #369
crtasm wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not AI generated at all. Using acoustic models to stem out individual sections from a recording is not creating new material (and I wouldn't even describe that as "AI" despite what I'm sure a lot of the tools offering it want us to believe).

Sorry, that's AI. So is OCR, so is voice recognition, and many other things you probably use and take for granted. I'd suggest you focus on use cases not trying to redefine definitions for an entire area of science and technology based on your own preferences. Saying "I'm against fully AI generated music" is at least precise, and doesn't throw out detecting cancer along with the AI bandwagon term.

> that's AI.

Not if you agree with dictionaries and Wikipedia:

Artificial intelligence (AI) is the capability of computational systems to perform tasks typically associated with human intelligence, such as learning, reasoning, problem-solving, perception, and decision-making.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#745

Post by cdrnsf »

serf wrote: post #514
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI music is the same. There is no surprise. No human element. No interest. No intention.

But the qusstion never got answered. If you liked a song that you later realized was generated would it ruin the song? If a robot ai basketball team was authentic enough to have hoodwinked me into thinking it was a real entertaining team then it has become a different question than whether or not I would knowingly participate as a spectator in an AI basketball league.

Anyone who follows sports knows the players on the team. How would they be fooled by a team of unusually talented entirely unknown players?

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#746

Post by codexon »

input_sh wrote: post #250
codexon wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I am one of the people who will say that. But where are the people calling for it to be banned? Where are the stores and websites that are banning AI generated software?

There's one popular platform that requires disclosing whether and how AI was used (Steam), and if you search anything about it, all you can find is like a sea of articles opposing it.

Recent update proving my point

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Steam-updates-AI-disclosure-fo...

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#747

Post by adamauckland »

jamesrcole wrote: post #733
emptyfile wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Art without human intent behind it, is simply not art.

And if there are aliens? I'm being serious. Why does it have to be human intent? And I think it is entirely feasible that at some point -- how far away, I don't know -- AI becomes superior to us in its appreciation of life and living.

Art is all over the natural world, look at animals which build nests, arrange pebbles, choose shells etc.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#748

Post by adamauckland »

big-chungus4 wrote: post #525
SchemaLoad wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is upset about being able to generate stuff for personal use. They are upset by the industrial scale of dumping AI slop on platforms like Spotify that make it increasingly difficult to discover anything good anymore. There is lots of good music still being created these days, but you'll never find it by just hitting next on streaming sites because 99% of the content had about 5 minutes of effort put in before…

what if you create something that sounds good with suno? Wouldn't you want to share it?

"Share" is a big ask. Why should anyone be bothered to listen to something you couldn't even be bothered to write?

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#749

Post by gatefolded »

The tricky part is where you draw the line. A guitarist using auto-tune, a producer using loop libraries, a bedroom artist using preset drums - at what point does the tool become the creator? Focusing on 'wholly or largely' AI-generated feels like the right call. It's about whether a human is at the center of the creative process.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#750

Post by gatefolded »

distances wrote: post #117
olivierestsage wrote: post #16

Funny to see this right now. Spotify's promotion of AI music bothered me so much that it has actually pushed me to Bandcamp and the practice of buying music again. It's really fun to build a collection knowing you're supporting the artists, download FLAC files, organize your little "collection" page ... Feels like a renaissance in my relationship with music, the most fun I've had since what.cd. Anyway, love this stan…

I've been reading about Spotify pushing generated music but haven't seen that myself so I'm interested to know in what context it happens. Is it certain music styles? Spotify's own playlists? That smart shuffle feature? I listen mostly in the old school way, full albums of my favourite artists, so I suppose it would be quite unexpected to stumble into AI music this way.

Liz Pelly's book covers this in depth. It's mostly in Spotify's mood and activity playlists ('Chill Vibes', 'Deep Focus', 'Peaceful Piano'). Spotify realized they could save on royalties by paying producers a flat fee to bang out dozens of tracks under fake artist names. "Ghost artists" with no online presence, no merch, no tours, just millions of streams. Pelly calls it 'leanback listening' - music designed to fill silence rather than be actively chosen. If you mainly listen to specific artists you seek out, you'd never encounter it.
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