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It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

tonsky.me

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Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#741

Post by myguysi »

ineedasername wrote: post #585
throwaway_ab wrote: post #8

It's hard to justify snowflake animations on your website...

It also immediately eats 5% of the raw compute on my RTX 4080 Super, which is more than a dozen tabs in chrome and 3 active youtube videos running, run in each of Chrome, Firefox, Edge-- all combined, which was 3% before loading this page (which is 5% on its own) up to 9% total. That explains my other comment, which speculated the snow as the cause for my iPhone instantly overheating, followed by screen-dimming throt…

I was starting to wonder why my iPhone got crazy hot. I’m using reader mode and it appears to continue running the web page and animation in the background… crazy.

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#742

Post by tannhaeuser »

What's your suggestion to deal with Apple's current fail? Wait until Tahoe's successor(s) or leave for good? When Jony Ive left, Apple managed to listen to their customers and quickly got rid of the Touch Bar thing, reintroduced a physical Esc key, etc. so there's hope left, isn't there?

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#743

Post by charles_f »

Great article, once you find how to deactivate the snowflakes.

This is only an opinion, but it feels like UX in general is moving towards making things cute rather than usable. Liquid glass is a case in point.

This is useful to a point, in the same sense that one might beauty, but when this is all you care about, it becomes a problem.

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#744

Post by xnx »

dlisboa wrote: post #734
xnx wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If a PM tells you to shove a UI style More than likely designers are making up work to justify their jobs. Not good for your career if you admit the desktop interface was perfected in ~1995.

Style matters, maybe unfortunately depending on the point of view. Products like consumer electronics have a large amount of fashion to them. Just like the t-shirt was perfected in the 1950s people still make new ones with little style changes for no functional reason. Designers at Balenciaga don't have to justify their jobs when they make oversized t-shirts, neither do the ones at Apple.

Fashion is a very appropriate place for style. Tools, less so.

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#745

Post by goalieca »

hyperhello wrote: post #642
goalieca wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How do they justify their job if they can't roll out huge visible changes? This is the core rotting value in so much of big tech. So much of your bonus, performance review, promotion package, etc is hinging on "delivering impact" (ie: doing the flashy stuff). Imagine a world where some internal R&D team took a risk on liquid design but then thought it was okay to not ship it because it didn't work out.

To push the problem up a level, why can’t the company change the incentives to “happy customers”?

The issue is that so long as you play the "performance" game, you'll run into Goodhart's law:

> When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.

All this data driven BS about impact is really just that. So much of it is just gaming the system.

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#747

Post by wpm »

finnlab wrote: post #354
latexr wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your Ableton and Logitech issues seem to be the same: screwed up access permissions. Not your fault, macOS has been sucking at it for a while. It’s not unheard of for System Settings to show you some app has some permissions, but in practice it doesn’t. What usually works is fully resetting permissions for an app: tccutil reset All To find the bundle ID for an app: mdls -raw -name kMDItemCFBundleIdentifier

I did try that amongst other things. Launching Ableton via Terminal also brought up the microphone permission pop-up...for the Terminal app. One has to wonder if a System that regularly "forgets" permissions is even secure at all.

TCC permissions are always evaluated by whether the parent process has the permission if it isn't being spawned by LaunchServices.

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#748

Post by buredoranna »

xnx wrote: post #455
sirwhinesalot wrote: post #247

It's hard to justify Liquid Glass in general. The wastefulness of flat design (in terms of space) married with the visual excess of skeuomorphism, but without even providing any affordances (does the sidebar being raised give you any new information on how to use a sidebar? No). If you're a designer at a top 10 S&P 500 company making 6 figures, you owe it to yourself to have some love for your craft. If a PM tells yo…

> If a PM tells you to shove a UI style More than likely designers are making up work to justify their jobs. Not good for your career if you admit the desktop interface was perfected in ~1995.

I wish I could remember where I picked up this quote

> No project manager ever got promoted for saying "let's keep things the same".

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#749

Post by myguysi »

ctippett wrote: post #561

500+ comments and no one's mentioned the jack of all trades "share" button? I would really love to see the internal metrics around how many users press share because they're actually sharing something versus wanting to use any one of the myriad of other functions it hides. Exhibit A: In Safari I had to "share" this page to use the "Find on Page" feature to search whether anyone had mentioned the share button yet. Bon…

Yep also ran into this while trying to search the article. It’s maddening when the share action is now also hidden within a context menu.

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#750

Post by Bjartr »

publicdebates wrote: post #428
xg15 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a big nostalgia factor which I think corresponds to the UIs you grew up with and are most familiar (would be Windows 2000 and XP for me) however I think it doesn't explain everything. By that logic, you shouldn't have any particular preference for newer UIs (apart from how similar they are to your "primed" UIs) and you shouldn't ever able to discover new UI patterns you particularly like. You should also be…

I don't trust such books and research. The fundamental thing in question here is what makes Beauty beautiful, which I think is indefinitely mysterious and perpetually elusive. If anyone claims to have grasped at a few concrete conclusions or tangible expertise, I think they're just trying to sell it. The concepts of beauty apply equally to all forms of art, which includes GUIs. I do agree that Steve was somewhat revo…

> The fundamental thing in question here is what makes Beauty beautiful

GUIs are tools first and art second.

Any GUI that looks good, but gets in the way, or fails to make the task at hand easy is not a good GUI.

The books and research are about making GUIs functional in an effective way. No one is claiming that a GUI that follows all the principles will look good. However it will make the task at hand easier to perform than it otherwise would be.

The problem is when people in charge of GUIs focus exclusively on Graphic Design instead of UI design. They are different fields, with different goals that only sometimes overlap.

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