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I think nobody wants AI in Firefox, Mozilla

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Re: I think nobody wants AI in Firefox, Mozilla

#741

Post by taeric »

devilbunny wrote: post #716
jiggawatts wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason Google Wave failed so spectacularly was that Google's Marketing team insisted on copying the "invite only rollout" that was so successful for Google Mail. The thing is that a Google Mail early invitee could collaborate with everybody else via the pre-existing standard of SMTP email. They felt special because they got a new web UI, told their friends about it, generated hype, which then made the invites fee…

Huh? You sure didn’t need an invite for Wave when I was using it.

They had a briefer invite only period than gmail. But definitely had one.

Re: I think nobody wants AI in Firefox, Mozilla

#742

Post by ajkjk »

godelski wrote: post #695
ajkjk wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, I'm sure. The claim is not "based on the (biased) examples I've seen, Mozilla is 'actually' evil", as if evil was some logical predicate that has a truth value which we are discovering the value of. The claim is "based on the (biased) examples I've seen, Mozilla is not morally trustworthy", because nobody who's trustworthy does any of the things we've seen. In every case they've got in trouble for, they were com…

> Mozilla is not morally trustworthy I'm a big fan of being critical of corporations. But we're worse off by treating this as a binary condition (moral vs immoral) rather than a continuum. No company is fundamentally moral and nobody is perfect. By creating a binary distinction we end up either placing everything into the same bucket or being disillusioned to their faults. Neither is good but the former allows for a…

the point of taking a big moral stance against Mozilla -- in fact, against anyone is

> if not Firefox, who?

Firefox! But run well!

The point of complaining about someone fucking up, or shaming them, is to get them to stop. They're the ones who should be doing good; they're in the position to do so; they know how; their hubris/capture by money/interests/class/ignorance/something is preventing it. They need only listen to solve this problem. And maybe wholesale replace leadership, I dunno. But replacing bad leadership is way easier than writing a new browser for scratch.

(a secondary purpose of complaining is to promulgate good norms to everybody else so that everybody's on the same page about what respectable behavior would look like)

> Let's be honest here, Firefox is only alive because Google needs them to avoid monopoly regulation.

sad to say, I agree.

Re: I think nobody wants AI in Firefox, Mozilla

#743

Post by rkomorn »

betamint wrote: post #734
AlienRobot wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can steal Workspaces from Vivaldi. Or they can steal vertical tabs from Vivaldi. Or they can steal the built-in RSS client form Vivaldi. Or they can steal the ability to save sessions from Vivaldi. Or they can steal the built-in notes from Vivaldi. Or they can steal the tab stacking from Vivaldi. Or they can steal the profile switching from Vivaldi. Honest question. What could Vivaldi "steal" from Firefox?

Containers. Firefox has this ability to separate cookies etc into different partitions, and users can make use of this feature by opening tabs in different containers. Many times when I use profiles in other browsers what I really want is container tabs. That combined with sideberry makes Firefox the superior one when I was checking if Vivaldi was worth switching to.

Containers seemed great to me at first but eventually they actually got in my way just as profiles do.

I just ended up with mounds of rules about what to open in the same container vs not, what urls to force in a given container, etc.

I still want to like them, but TBH, I don't miss them in Vivaldi.

Totally willing to accept I was doing containers wrong, I guess, but in that case, I don't know what "right" would've looked like.

Re: I think nobody wants AI in Firefox, Mozilla

#744

Post by godelski »

ajkjk wrote: post #742
godelski wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mozilla is not morally trustworthy I'm a big fan of being critical of corporations. But we're worse off by treating this as a binary condition (moral vs immoral) rather than a continuum. No company is fundamentally moral and nobody is perfect. By creating a binary distinction we end up either placing everything into the same bucket or being disillusioned to their faults. Neither is good but the former allows for a…

the point of taking a big moral stance against Mozilla -- in fact, against anyone is > if not Firefox, who? Firefox! But run well! The point of complaining about someone fucking up, or shaming them, is to get them to stop. They're the ones who should be doing good; they're in the position to do so; they know how; their hubris/capture by money/interests/class/ignorance/something is preventing it. They need only listen…

  > They need only listen to solve this problem
The problem is that others listen and use those words to justify choosing "not Firefox." It is the way we complain about Firefox, not that we do. It's a fine line to walk, but be careful to not arm your enemy

Re: I think nobody wants AI in Firefox, Mozilla

#745

Post by cindyllm »

godelski wrote: post #744
ajkjk wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the point of taking a big moral stance against Mozilla -- in fact, against anyone is > if not Firefox, who? Firefox! But run well! The point of complaining about someone fucking up, or shaming them, is to get them to stop. They're the ones who should be doing good; they're in the position to do so; they know how; their hubris/capture by money/interests/class/ignorance/something is preventing it. They need only listen…

> They need only listen to solve this problem The problem is that others listen and use those words to justify choosing "not Firefox." It is the way we complain about Firefox, not that we do. It's a fine line to walk, but be careful to not arm your enemy

[dead]

Re: I think nobody wants AI in Firefox, Mozilla

#746

Post by devilbunny »

jiggawatts wrote: post #718
devilbunny wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? You sure didn’t need an invite for Wave when I was using it.

https://creately.com/blog/customer/10-free-google-wave-invit... https://www.newschoolers.com/news/read/Got-Google-Wave-Invit... https://bolesblogs.com/2009/10/13/get-your-google-wave-invit... https://googlewaveinvites.weebly.com/ And so on: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22google+wave%22+%22invites...

I’m not saying you are lying. Just saying that it did have a run - several years - where an invite was unnecessary.

Re: I think nobody wants AI in Firefox, Mozilla

#748

Post by frxx »

everdrive wrote: post #4

Does anyone want AI in anything? I can see the value of navigating to an LLM and asking specific questions, but generally speaking I don't want that just running / waiting on my machine as I open a variety of applications. It's a huge waste of resources and for most normal people is an edge case.

That's what I've been saying for some time now... "No one really wants AI! They want their software to be faster or better, but do they care if the people in the background of the image have been removed by AI or not?" And in fact they don't.

Managers think they want AI but they actually want their people to work faster or better. Higher managers think they want AI so they can save money, or at least not fall behind the competitors, if those were to use AI to get an advantage.

Companies making software think they want AI because their competitors are using it, and they think the users want AI so the software can be perceived as modern, not falling behind.

And so on, and so on... other than Nvidia, openAI, Anthropic, etc, no one really wants AI.

Re: I think nobody wants AI in Firefox, Mozilla

#749

Post by jiggawatts »

devilbunny wrote: post #746
jiggawatts wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://creately.com/blog/customer/10-free-google-wave-invit... https://www.newschoolers.com/news/read/Got-Google-Wave-Invit... https://bolesblogs.com/2009/10/13/get-your-google-wave-invit... https://googlewaveinvites.weebly.com/ And so on: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22google+wave%22+%22invites...

I’m not saying you are lying. Just saying that it did have a run - several years - where an invite was unnecessary.

It lost its "momentum" by then. The marketing got "early adopters" excited, the kind that would evangelise a platform, but they were blocked because either they couldn't get in themselves, or couldn't invite their colleagues. By the time Google realised their mistake and provided access to everyone without an invite, it was far too late.

Re: I think nobody wants AI in Firefox, Mozilla

#750

Post by DaSHacka »

s3p wrote: post #640
DaSHacka wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you care about your privacy? I think you just answered your own questions.

I'm not sure they did. What do you think is the answer to "Why would you trust chrome if you care about privacy?"

GP said:

> I don't understand why anyone would choose Chrome over Firefox. I get that it's performant, but it's developed by a dominant advertising company. Why would you trust Chrome if you care about your privacy?

I believe the vast majorty of people do not care about their privacy, answering GP's question.

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