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We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

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Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#741

Post by fugalfervor »

chubot wrote: post #676
Hoasi wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When mall is called a public space... Public space situation is really sad. Absolutely, but still, that is a reality in many cities. They are places where "going to the mall" is the main form of entertainment left.

Uh I grew up in NJ suburbs in the 80’s and 90’s - that was already the case, and there was a hit movie 3 decades ago about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mallrats (But malls are much less popular now, probably mainly due to the rise of Internet retail)

Mallrats grossed 2 million against a 6 million budget. It wasn't a "hit"

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#742

Post by vel0city »

alwa wrote: post #735
vel0city wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Third places are hard to find, and when they exist, they're paid I see this claim a lot but I don't understand it. Can you give me some examples of common third places in other countries that aren't paid that don't exist in US suburbs?

The front stoop/street/sidewalk where everybody hangs out? The public square? The park? The market—not to buy or sell necessarily, but because everybody’s there? The library? The public pool/baths? The house of worship in walking distance?

I live in a suburb in the US

> The front stoop/street/sidewalk where everybody hangs out?

My kids and other kids in the neighborhood close by play around in the cul-de-sac quite often. Lots of people are out walking around. A lot of neighbors have patio furniture in their front yard and can be found out there, at least when its not 100F+ outside.

> The public square?

The downtown area nearby has lots of events going on.

> The park?

My suburban town has 42 of them. Almost 2,000 acres. They're mostly connected by dedicated bike paths. There's a city park attached to nearly every neighborhood area. Down the street from me there's a park with multiple playground areas, walking path through some small woods, a fishing pond, some basic sports areas (fences and graveled areas for baseball/softball, space for soccer, etc). So yeah, plenty of parks to be had. And there's usually a good bit of people at these places.

And that's before getting into the public sports facilities and other recreation facilities.

> The market—not to buy or sell necessarily, but because everybody’s there?

I hung out at the farmer's market this morning that's routinely held in town most weeks on Saturday mornings. Lots of people walking/biking to it.

> The library?

Excellent library with lots of events going on. They're rebuilding the main building after a fire, but even in their temporary space its great. Its usually pretty busy. It has excellent transit and bike paths to get to it, even in its temporary location.

> The public pool/baths?

Lots of city pools. Even one with a lot of water slides, its like a small water park.

> The house of worship in walking distance?

There are plenty of churches in Texas, trust me.

So once again, what's missing? And I'm not in an absurdly wealthy place, my suburb has a pretty average average household income. And its been roughly like this for most places I've lived or stayed at for significant periods of time. Maybe a bit less on transit, that is something my current place is probably a decent bit better than the average US suburb there.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#743

Post by kjkjadksj »

mgraczyk wrote: post #456
kjkjadksj wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A night out literally costs 5x as much as 10 years ago

First, young people make a lot more than they did 10 years ago (both nominally and inflation adjusted). Second, no it does not cost 5x as much, closer to 15-20% more based on all the data I could find. Anecdotally in San Francisco, NYC, and Austin it is maybe 2x more at the most expensive places. EDIT: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252882200Q

Drinks are like $15-20 now. 15 years ago I was getting double wells for like $2-5. Bars had actual legit specials too like dollar beers. Uber 10 years ago would be like $7 at the most.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#744

Post by fugalfervor »

burnt-resistor wrote: post #679
dv_dt wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though it's popularized to blame social media and phones, economics should not be overlooked. Pay for young generations is lagging and restaurants and bar prices are super high. Public spaces for informal gatherings has shrunk - eg fewer malls

Parks and trails are/were non commercial meeting spaces. City recreational parks in America used to have water fountains and cool stuff like climbable sculptures for kids and decommissioned Korean War era fighter jets in sand pits. That all went away with the helicopter parents.

> That all went away with the helicopter parents.

I want you to complete that thought. Stay with it. Explain exactly how the helicopter parents are responsible for removing the things you liked in American city recreational parks.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#745

Post by mgraczyk »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #743
mgraczyk wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, young people make a lot more than they did 10 years ago (both nominally and inflation adjusted). Second, no it does not cost 5x as much, closer to 15-20% more based on all the data I could find. Anecdotally in San Francisco, NYC, and Austin it is maybe 2x more at the most expensive places. EDIT: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252882200Q

Drinks are like $15-20 now. 15 years ago I was getting double wells for like $2-5. Bars had actual legit specials too like dollar beers. Uber 10 years ago would be like $7 at the most.

Uber basically didn't exist 10 years ago and was insanely VC subsidized. Compare cab prices.

Drinks in some places are more, other places have not increased as much. You basically couldn't find a $5 drink in SF in 2015. You can still find $2 drinks in Austin today

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#746

Post by kjkjadksj »

9rx wrote: post #545
kjkjadksj wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A night out literally costs 5x as much as 10 years ago

That's because the night starts way earlier than it used to. The data is abundantly clear about that. Back in my day you didn't even leave home for a night out before 11PM. You couldn't spend that much even if you tried before everything was closed and there was nowhere left to spend. Young people today, on the other hand, are favouring starting the night out in the early evening, even the afternoon. A night out may…

The night started as soon as you were able to drink back then. It was college. Some bars had specials starting at 1pm. People would be there with their backpacks on still straight from class. People would get off work and immediately drink. We’d usually be drinking for at least 5 hours before we started crawling bars. On weekends we’d drink literally the entire day. We’d duct tape cases of beer to our chest and wouldn’t remove them until they were all drank or stolen from us.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#747

Post by fugalfervor »

mgraczyk wrote: post #434
dv_dt wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though it's popularized to blame social media and phones, economics should not be overlooked. Pay for young generations is lagging and restaurants and bar prices are super high. Public spaces for informal gatherings has shrunk - eg fewer malls

This isn't true in the US. Young people in US consume much more of those things you listed than people over 40 did at the same age. Young people have more purchasing power than previous generations. EDIT: Data from the fed and payroll providers show this overwhelmingly to be the case, but just to add some color/anecdote. I found all of the first jobs I had in highschool and just after. 3/3 of my first roles now adver…

> I found all of the first jobs I had in highschool and just after. 3/3 of my first roles now advertise a minimum salary over twice what I was paid 14-18 years ago. Prices have gone up around 20-30% since then overall so I would have had 40% more purchasing power today with the same jobs.

Holy Anecdote, Batman!

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#748

Post by mgraczyk »

fugalfervor wrote: post #747
mgraczyk wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't true in the US. Young people in US consume much more of those things you listed than people over 40 did at the same age. Young people have more purchasing power than previous generations. EDIT: Data from the fed and payroll providers show this overwhelmingly to be the case, but just to add some color/anecdote. I found all of the first jobs I had in highschool and just after. 3/3 of my first roles now adver…

> I found all of the first jobs I had in highschool and just after. 3/3 of my first roles now advertise a minimum salary over twice what I was paid 14-18 years ago. Prices have gone up around 20-30% since then overall so I would have had 40% more purchasing power today with the same jobs. Holy Anecdote, Batman!

From the line before:

> Data from the fed and payroll providers show this overwhelmingly to be the case, but just to add some color/anecdote.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#749

Post by mgraczyk »

terribleperson wrote: post #647
mgraczyk wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't true in the US. Young people in US consume much more of those things you listed than people over 40 did at the same age. Young people have more purchasing power than previous generations. EDIT: Data from the fed and payroll providers show this overwhelmingly to be the case, but just to add some color/anecdote. I found all of the first jobs I had in highschool and just after. 3/3 of my first roles now adver…

A 20-30% increase in prices does not match what I've observed. Restaurant prices are up 50-100% over the past decade. This isn't hard to check: look at old and new menu photos on yelp. Banh mi have gone from $3 to $6 in less than ten years. My local gas station mexican place (which has excellent food) has seem a price increase of 50% since 2019 and more like 100% since 2016. Coffee ditto, but luckily I don't buy coff…

Your observations are limited, if you average over large enough an area you will see a different story

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#750

Post by [deleted] »

Nathanba wrote: post #335
egypturnash wrote: post #295

It's not going to solve loneliness. It's just going to provide a weak substitute for actual socialization. Talking with actual humans but only over the internet is not enough, I have been there and it was a terrible trap, it provided just enough to make it possible for me to avoid physical socialization, while not giving me enough to actually thrive; we need to get out and be in the same place with other people, doin…

Real humans are also fake and they are also traps who are waiting to catch you when you say something they don't like. Then they also use every word and piece of information as ammunition against you, ironically sort of similar to the criticism always levied against online platforms who track you and what you say. AI robots are going to easily replace real humans because compared to most real humans the AI is already…

[deleted]
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