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4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

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Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#741
post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The truth is that science builds the foundation for that other stuff. It is the very ground you stand on. Engineering without science is like trying to run without ground. That doesn't mean that government investment in science is necessarily a good idea. > I'd be willing to wager that the economic impact of Newton and Leibniz's invention of Calculus[0] is larger than the economic impact of any engineering product,…

I wish more people understood this. An enormous amount of research work sits somewhere between a public jobs program and a waste of resources, and we're at a point where NASA has fallen behind in significant ways. Calling something research doesn't mean we should protect it, and most significant advancements aren't through government but rather private industry.

I wish that more people understood that if they're very wrong/openly lying about the history of scientific achievement, they're probably in the wrong about their conclusions regarding the future of science as well.

And that's Eru (and perhaps you) here. Pubic science continues to make fantastic moves forward, with one notable example being nearly ALL the meaningful research and engineering moving us towards nuclear fusion being based on public research. Historically, major contributors to research almost universally had significant government funding.

It's true that we can gesture to AI research recently as a fruitful place for private research, but even orgs like Deepmind took government grants. Deepmind's publicly called for governments to fund AI research, as have many other (private) researchers.

In any event, taking tax money and giving it back to the betterment of society as a whole is one of the most uniformly good things that could be done with tax dollars. Science consistently betters society as a whole, and it's almost impossible to identify in advance what theoretical or practical breakthroughs in any given field are about to become significant.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's why I'm asking him for clarification.

“ What does this even mean? I literally cannot figure it out. Like, they’ll just put warm bodies anywhere” Yes, that is literally it. The current administration has no qualms about appointing unqualified people to cabinet positions, whether they’re former entertainment CEOs espousing the merits of A1, or drunken news commentators to lead our military… if the spray tan man saw them on the teevee they must be good, wit…

Yeah, but I don’t get how “we’ll use any dumbass” equates to “well take your absolute top scientists”.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#743

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't sound legal.

There is worse going on in other areas, for example "China Recruiting Former R.A.F. Pilots to Train Its Army Pilots, U.K. Says" https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-63293582 https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/17/world/europe/china-recrui... https://asiatimes.com/2024/12/what-uk-fighter-pilots-did-and... And finally, the official response: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/former-armed-forces-perso... It comes down to money and…

A lot of your "we" seems to mean literally that your elites aren't loyal to you whereas other elites are loyal to the "us".

That puts you in a uniquely disadvantageous position.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX’s mission is very explicitly not shareholder aligned, which is why Musk explicitly said he would never take it public or sell his majority stake. The mission is mars and the money making endeavors (starlink) are to bring in the cash to do that.

Even if he were sincere, sacrificing NASA because it's mission has some overlap with the stated goal of a billionaire is ridiculous.

That’s unrelated to what I’m saying. My point is that spacex isn’t driven by shareholders

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ What does this even mean? I literally cannot figure it out. Like, they’ll just put warm bodies anywhere” Yes, that is literally it. The current administration has no qualms about appointing unqualified people to cabinet positions, whether they’re former entertainment CEOs espousing the merits of A1, or drunken news commentators to lead our military… if the spray tan man saw them on the teevee they must be good, wit…

Yeah, but I don’t get how “we’ll use any dumbass” equates to “well take your absolute top scientists”.

It doesn’t, that’s the point. Operation Paperclip took a calculated risk, for what they saw as the good of the country, long-term. With the current grifters at the helm, we’ll, let’s grab the popcorn and see.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#746
post #153

I understand wanting to make the organization more efficient, but i don't think this is what's happening here. I think this is the classic republican strat of gutting federal agencies, pointing to the inefficiencies caused by the loss of institutional knowledge, and using that as an excuse to privatize to their friends. The fact that Elon's DOGE suggested these cuts lines up

It's all part of the plan, which is referred to as the butterfly revolution, by Curtis Yarvin. Leaders that have literally invested in this platform are buying into this nonsense. Peter Theil, JD Vance, Marc Andreesen, Garry Tan, Srinivasan, and many others, wanting to overthrow democracy and dissolve nation states. This effort is to establish Network States with those that worship them, sycophants and cults. They wa…

All this revolution in the objectively best of times.

At least in past when people wanted to burn everything down they had a good reason. This is truly the dumbest period in human history.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#747
post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey everyone, consider looking at the Wikipedia page for an agency before posting piss-takes on social media regarding that agency. Sending things to space is a small part of what NASA does. "Aeronautics" is not "space rocketry", and all federal agencies do more than what their name indicates.

And what is that?

NASA was originally formed as NACA to research aeronautics technology and help advance our uncompetitive nascent aerospace industry.

Building spacecraft and space transportation systems like the shuttle came later and is a very different type of task.

Unfortunately, the more flamboyant manned space flight and science missions have gradually come to dominate NASA, and much of the fundamental tech research that made it possible in the first place has been deprioritized and defunded.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#748
post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a note you may find helpful. > I feel your post is too long It’s about 700 words. It’s thought through, well-written, neatly organized, and it’s a fine set up for further discussion. If that’s too long for you on this forum , then I’d probably take a look in the mirror and ask some tough questions.

Thanks for the support. I know I can be wordy but I also come to HN to have more nuanced conversations than somewhere like Twitter or Reddit. Honestly, I think a lot of political fighting is caused by removal of nuance and the tendency to be rushing for rushing's sake.

[deleted]

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#749
post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a note you may find helpful. I feel your post is too long to be digested and responded to in a forum like this. Maybe I'm wrong, and if so I apologise! But as soon as I saw the essay like format, I knew I wasn't going to spend time on it. I think shorter points that provoke discussion may work better here.

Just a note you may find helpful. > I feel your post is too long It’s about 700 words. It’s thought through, well-written, neatly organized, and it’s a fine set up for further discussion. If that’s too long for you on this forum , then I’d probably take a look in the mirror and ask some tough questions.

The tricky thing is, long posts like this tend to provoke responses selectively nitpicking about one thing, and then either going way down into the definitional weeds or galloping to the next nitpick without acknowledging any error.

I think the long content is fine as it stands, but it isn't necessarily a good seed for discussion in a comment thread (as opposed to an underlying article).

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many orbital refuels would Starship need for a lunar landing and return mission? Something like 20? I honestly wonder why we didn't just stick with the Saturn V. 13 launches and only one (non-catastrophic) failure. If it aint broke don't fix it.

What was the one failure of the Saturn V that you mention? If you're thinking of Apollo 13, that took place after the Apollo stack had ditched all of the Saturn V stages.

Apollo 6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_6

Had that happened on a crewed mission, they could have returned astronauts safely. Which is probably why they went ahead with Apollo 8

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