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AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

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Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#741

Post by jeremyjh »

nine_k wrote: post #441
jeremyjh wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would mean TSMC would basically become a US company, right?

I suppose they have a US branch / subsidiary anyway?

Yes, every company that operates in the US and many that only import have US subsidiaries. This is true of all companies pretty much everywhere in the world. The government must have an entity it can tax, and a throat it can choke, but the subsidiary is answering to a parent and that is I think what would change if TSMC could no longer operate in Taiwan or was taken over by the party.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#742

Post by fellowmartian »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #720
fellowmartian wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument you’re making works just as well for any other crop. Productive land is the asset and the security, not the corn itself. In fact, growing the damn corn everywhere degrades the soil. We might as well grow wheat, rice, legumes, etc. Besides path-dependence there’s little reason for corn dominance.

Agreed that it's the active land use, not a specific crop, that matters from a food security perspective. Disagreed otherwise though. Soil degradation is due to people cutting corners to save money. Rice requires significantly more water. Wheat and oats don't have the same shelf life. Legumes are likely comparable but how do they stack up against corn for things like animal feed and chemical feedstock? The reality is…

Well if corn is so productive and efficient then surely it doesn’t need any subsidies. It can stand on its own merits in a real free market.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#743

Post by criley2 »

almosthere wrote: post #668
criley2 wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt it. Taiwan would destroy their own fabs before someone else did. But that's likely unnecessary, China would be unable to operate the fabs anyway and they've already stolen the relevant information and are trying to recreate it. TSMC would get their experts out of the country and their trade partners would simply stop supplying the vital materials. And mututally assured destruction has nothing to do wit…

Yeah I think everyone understood that analogy you spelled out w/respect to MAD.

China would not engage in nuclear escalation in response to the US striking Taiwan, and China does not otherwise possess the ability to strike the US homeland without incurring a nuclear response, so there is no mutually assured destruction with regards to semiconductor industry. In this hypothetical, the US would succeed in striking Taiwan and China would not escalate into nuclear war. But, the US would not strike Taiwan. Taiwan would destroy their own industry before that happened.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#744

Post by Ray20 »

codedokode wrote: post #273
Workaccount2 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The inability to make SOTA silicon chips domestically would be catastrophic in a event of a war in the east. TSMC is making fabs in the US, but they are not SOTA fabs. Those are kept in Taiwan.

Isn't building a TSMC factory in US a violation of a "don't build your home on someone's else land" principle? US will be able to shut down or even nationalize the factory, full of expensive equipment, at any moment. It's like lending a goose with golden eggs to your neighbour.

What's the alternative? Literally one of the safest places for your golden goose on the planet

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#745

Post by Ray20 »

xyst wrote: post #80
linuxftw wrote: post #35

This is why tariffs matter. Despite the US having much higher wages, and likely property and infrastructure costs, manufacturing is only 5-20% more for these high tech products. Corporations outsourced not because they couldn't compete, but because why leave 10% on the table when we can reward the executives with that cash instead of the labor?

Blaming tariffs when it was the greed of Wall Street, private equity, hedge funds, "corporate raiders" that ultimately shipped manufacturing overseas. All of this under decades of psuedo-economic theory called neoclassical economics. Then this is taken further under neoliberal economic policy — "reagonomics" and "trickle down economics". These greedy fucks in the 1970s sold out current generations so they could min/m…

>it was the greed of Wall Street, private equity, hedge funds, "corporate raiders" that ultimately shipped manufacturing overseas

Let's call a spade a spade: it was the greed of AMERICAN WORKERS that shipped manufacturing overseas. Wall Street, private equity, hedge funds, "corporate raiders" has almost nothing to do with it.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#746

Post by nickthegreek »

FuriouslyAdrift wrote: post #693
zuminator wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think realistically the US is unfortunately never going to protect Taiwan. There's no way I see it getting into an unwinnable hot war with China over territory so close to the mainland. If China sent troops to secure the Taiwanese fabs, how could the US possibly dislodge them without destroying the thing they want to protect? The focus on the CHIPS Act by both recent administrations seems an admission that they don…

Taiwan is armed to the teeth. A full engagement would most likely destroy large sections of Taiwan and Southern China.

and they can hold their own chip factories hostage if desperate enough.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#747

Post by nobodyandproud »

1718627440 wrote: post #729
nobodyandproud wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about freight trains?

From the US to Taiwan? I mean if Elon Musk want's to build a hyperloop through a sea floor spreading zone, then sure why not.

The context was truck-based shipping being more expensive than ships. I was thinking Arizona/New Mexico to ports (and vice versa).

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#748

Post by rob_c »

motorest wrote: post #692
rob_c wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It changes nothing. It helps nothing. It is not to be trusted. Not when people are being absolutist rather than taking the situation for what it is and doing the best they can with it. Tariffs or no the US wants back in on the construction/manufacturing industry. This is something that should be seen as a good thing. I just wish the EU was so visionary but we're worried about recycling plastics (when we don't use t…

> Not when people are being absolutist rather than taking the situation for what it is and doing the best they can with it. The US is threatening NATO partners with invasion and annexation, not to mention the moronic tariff war, and you come here talk about "absolutist"? Pathetic.

Basically NATO partners are only suffering from less sales info the US pocket. The US pocket is weakening to allow the US to begin manufacturing. The tarrif "war" for what it is will see an excess of products not sold to the US markets. The US will not invade. It's a pr move. Frankly if you're bothered with that let's talk about Hawaii and Alaska (or several international trade routes).

There's plenty of opportunity that doesn't involve bowing to the petrol dollar and becoming subservient and maybe that can even be done without importing half of the developing world.

Don't call people pathetic unless you're actually equipped to engage in conversation. It's demeaning to yourself and is no better than demanding things change for your feelings.

Being absolutist is just giving up your ability to take action and control your own life. The biggest victim is yourself and it only hurts others. Take action. Do something and move on with life. Stop being paralyzed by the media left/right/alt/mainstream/pink-lizard-bunny. Go touch grass and be happy.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#749

Post by NonHyloMorph »

bloppe wrote: post #691
NonHyloMorph wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is that idea coming from that you will be able to choose? Like there will be 2 versions of the same product on the shelves with one reading made in the usa and 5-20% more expensive? That's silly

Lol read the article

Might be that the archived version is cut, but can't find anything contradicting the assumption that it will not be the case, that two lines of the same product (one taiwan manufactured and one US manufactured) will exist... which would be silly.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#750

Post by rfrey »

rob_c wrote: post #748
motorest wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not when people are being absolutist rather than taking the situation for what it is and doing the best they can with it. The US is threatening NATO partners with invasion and annexation, not to mention the moronic tariff war, and you come here talk about "absolutist"? Pathetic.

Basically NATO partners are only suffering from less sales info the US pocket. The US pocket is weakening to allow the US to begin manufacturing. The tarrif "war" for what it is will see an excess of products not sold to the US markets. The US will not invade. It's a pr move. Frankly if you're bothered with that let's talk about Hawaii and Alaska (or several international trade routes). There's plenty of opportunity…

You keep isolating the discussion to tariffs, and ignoring the US hostility to former allies, including threatening to invade two NATO members, as well as US support for Russia against the west in active wars.

Tariffs can be a reasonable policy (although not when implemented like this... rejuvenating manufacturing by imposing huge tariffs on raw materials? Really?) but when people talk about the US abandoning the western democracies they're not talking exclusively or even primarily about tariffs.

Saying the equivalent of "Oh, that's just Trump talk" is nonsense. Everybody thought Trump's support for Russia was just talk. He's deployed active military on US soil. He's ignored the judiciary and is progressively neutering them. All that was "just Trump being Trump" before he did it. The man is a mad king and half of America is happy to follow him for the lolz.

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