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The $25k car is going extinct?

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Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#741

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

smeej wrote: post #550
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

build one from scratch (kit car)

Do these even still exist? And is it reasonable to get one road-legal somewhere like the U.S. for less than the cost of buying one (once you assign at least some value to your time)?

I'm not in the US so no idea ... but according to answer in Google:

> All Caterham models are imported as rolling chassis. They are street legal in the U.S. under EPA kit-car regulations and can be registered through processes specific to individual states.

source https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2015-caterham-seven-360-sta...

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#742

Post by matthewowen »

sofixa wrote: post #523
matthewowen wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> netflix and co Standard plan is £5.99 in UK, €7.99 in france, $7.99 in the US. So the US is the cheapest of those after currency conversion > cinema US median price in 2022: $10.53. In the UK, £7.69 == $10.54 (uncanny tbh) > groceries https://www.lovemoney.com/gallerylist/360768/what-a-basket-o... puts the US at $52.80, France at $51.08. I'm genuinely struggling to understand where you are pulling these conclusions…

> Standard plan is £5.99 in UK, €7.99 in france, $7.99 in the US. So the US is the cheapest of those after currency conversion Standard with ads , which is distorting because ads have a different cost and benefit (more expensive and lucrative in the US). Standard Standard is 14.99€ in France, £12.99 in the UK, $17.99 in the US. > US median price in 2022: $10.53. In the UK, £7.69 == $10.54 (uncanny tbh) 2022 is distor…

> Standard with ads, which is distorting because ads have a different cost and benefit (more expensive and lucrative in the US). Standard Standard is 14.99€ in France, £12.99 in the UK, $17.99 in the US.

so it's 30 cents cheaper per month on that basis. that doesn't really support the claim.

> I like how you picked France, not Poland at $27, Spain at $35, UK at $35, Ireland at $39, Belgium at $42, Italy at $44, Germany at $46, etc.

I picked France because I had specifically mentioned France previously. I'm aiming to be consistent.

> Plus anecdotes from the internet.

It all becomes clearer.

> You said they're favourable, not more favourable than e.g. in the UK. What's the average APR?

I said "better access to favorable rates", not that every person is getting good rates. For what it's worth I would say that any interest rate that's below the expected return on money in the SP500 is quite favorable.

> The only metric by which Mississipi is "richer" than France is GDP/GDP per capita.

Clearly untrue: it has higher household disposable income, almost certainly the most relevant statistic.

I really don't think you're sincerely interested in this topic, you just want to dunk on America.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#743

Post by Jcampuzano2 »

BanterTrouble wrote: post #597
bumby wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of those “useless” sensors like tire pressure or backup camera are required by law. Even if you get a bare bones hatchback (manual transmission, manual locks, manual windows etc.) they’ll be forced to include those.

The tyre pressure sensor you can make an argument to be required by law as uneven tyre pressures can negatively effect handling. However the backup camera being required by law is absolutely ridiculous. You can just either use the mirrors or turn your head.

Backup cameras being required by law is a consequence of cars being absolutely disgustingly large for any average use case, at least in the US where I live.

I go to South America a lot to visit family and for business and the cars by and large are much more maneuverable, small and nimble, and you can actually see most things around you.

But then every time I get back on my first car ride I'm greeted with an absolute monstrosity of a vehicle. Even the average sedan feels gargantuan. Due to this people can't realistically see very well behind them. Never mind the fact that most cars the rear windshield isn't even that large anymore, and in some vehicles head checks don't even work well because the columns are right in your view.

I understand some of this is in the name of "safety", but realistically it feels like it trading one safety measure - safety for the people inside the vehicle - at the expense of another - those outside the vehicle.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#744

Post by knowaveragejoe »

ryandrake wrote: post #557
BanterTrouble wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am still a somewhat of a novice. Your friend is right IMO. Do something simple first. Like a broken piece of trim, replace a light bulb, change the wiper blades yourself and build yourself up. I had repaired bicycles/motorcycles before hand. Past that. I literally go on YouTube and watch someone do the task I intend on doing. I have the service manual downloaded for the car (people dump scans of the manuals online…

YouTube is fantastic if you already diagnosed the problem and know what part you need to replace. You just follow along with the video, pausing while you go. It’s perfect. YouTube is kind of shit for diagnosis, though. Most of the videos just gloss over it. “Hey guys! So, my fuel pump is dead, so here’s a video on how to replace it!” Ok, thanks, but how did you figure out it was the fuel pump? Not a lot of YouTube co…

I've found the best knowledge on that front are youtubers who buy beater old cars, get them running again and maybe even restore them to resell at a profit.

Their videos are between 20-60 minutes and run through the general process of going from no-crank-no-start to running, which is basically the same for all gas-powered cars. Diesels are a little different.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#745

Post by Shalomboy »

arrozconcosas wrote: post #735
tlogan wrote: post #566

Strange article based on incorrect information. My son and I are buying car and there are so many under 25k. In total there are 12 new models. Adjusted to inflation things did not change a lot in last 20 years (in 2005 there were 10 models less than 15k). - 2025 Nissan Versa – Starting at $18,330 - 2025 Hyundai Venue – Starting at $21,395 - 2025 Kia Soul – Starting at $20,490 - 2025 Nissan Sentra – Starting at $21,59…

The answer is to buy a car off lease, that has 20,000 miles on it and is 20-40% cheaper than the new price. It is nearly identical to a new car and has 90% of its useful life remaining.

I mean that's just not the reality anymore. You could perhaps get 10-15% of the price knocked off here in the US, but 20-40% isn't accurate for anything besides high-volume luxury compact sedans, and even then you're skewing much closer to 20-25% in most regions.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#746

Post by senko »

weberer wrote: post #645
tlogan wrote: post #577

This is a great example of how factually incorrect narratives - so long as they align with a preferred agenda (which is that things are not affordable any more) - it gets upvoted. Reality check: - In 2025, there are 12 new car models available under $25,000 - In 2005, there were around 10 new models under $15,000 (25k adjusted by inflation) So the premise that “cars used to be much more affordable” is not true. This…

>adjusted by inflation So the affordability crisis completely disappears once you adjust for the #1 thing that's been making things unaffordable.

Of course, you should be adjusting for the wage rise instead.

FRED figures show wages slightly outpaced inflation: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q (unless I'm reading the chart incorrectly)

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#747

Post by diggan »

Xenoamorphous wrote: post #576
diggan wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Seagull (aka "Dolphin Surf" in other countries) seems to cost 18560 GBP in the UK, or 11.780€ in Spain. Haven't checked out other countries, but clearly "Chinese EVs (BYD Seagull/Dolphin Surf/Dolphin Mini) are $10k worldwide except USA" isn't 100% correct. Seems fine to leave something like that unmentioned, as a quick check reveals it not to be true at all.

Is there a typo in your message? I see €18,780 in Spain.

Ah, no, I just went to the homepage of BYD, clicked on Dolphin Surf and seems it sent me to a promotion page (https://www.byd.com/es-es/promociones/dolphin-surf-promocion) where the price is listed as 11.780€.

The footer mentions the PVP (recommended pricing) is 11.780€, which is after the government MOVES III rebate which removes 7K, which would explain the difference.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#748

Post by trinix912 »

cloudedcordial wrote: post #529

The car-dependent culture create a problem that you can't even go to work if you cannot afford a car.

And this chicken-and-egg problem is also with public transit:

- to have people use public transit, it has to provide enough routes and drive often enough to be at least remotely comparable to driving yourself

- to do that, a lot of funding is required

- to get that funding, people have to use and pay for the transit (fares)

You can get some of that in with taxes, like many places already do, but there's only so much you can afford on taxes alone.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#749

Post by nkotov »

Infiniti is on the list of highest price increases. The reality is that nobody is actually buying any of their newer models. They dropped the ball in 2010s and playing catch up in 2020s. Nobody is going to pay $100k for QX80 when you can get an GX550/Escalade/Yukon for similar money.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#750

Post by mattmaroon »

NickC25 wrote: post #603
mattmaroon wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it’s well below the minimum sustainable level due to Chinese government subsidies.

And that's a bad thing? A country's government sees an opportunity to invest into a promising new technology that could reap tremendous economic benefits. Such benefits include new jobs, new income, the ability to increase social/political capital worldwide, and help usher in a world that is that much less reliant on oil. That's what countries in the first world are supposed to do .

Well, it’s a bad thing for countries whose economies include manufacturing and aren’t China, sure. The obvious threat is that they will do what they did with manufacturing capacity and just kill the industry in other places.

Do we want to get to a point where every industry is completely run by whichever country is willing to throw the most money at it?

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