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Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

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Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#741

Post by dax_ »

diggan wrote: post #702
iLoveOncall wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> maybe we'll come to view deterministic vs. probabilistic (LLMs) similarly I can't believe someone would seriously write this and not realize how nonsensical it is. "indeterministic programming", you seriously cannot come up with a bigger oxymoron.

Why do people keep having this reaction to something we're already used to? When you're developing against an API, you're already doing the same thing, planning for what happens when the request hangs, or fails completely, or gives a different response, and so on. Same for basically any IO. It's almost not even new, just that it generates text instead of JSON, or whatever. But we've already been doing "indeterministi…

Why would we embrace that even more? In Software Development we try to keep things deterministic as much as possible. The more variables we're introducing into our software, the more complicated it becomes.

The whole notion of adding LLM prompts as a replacement for code just seems utterly insane to me. It would be a massive waste of resources as we're reprompting AI a lot more frequently than we need to. Also must be fun to debug, as it may or may not work correctly depending on how the LLM model is feeling at that moment. Compilation should always be deterministic, given the same environment.

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#742

Post by skydhash »

loudmax wrote: post #739
klabb3 wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right about the trees but wrong (hear me out) about the forest. Yes, programming isn’t always deterministic, not just due to the leftpad API endpoint being down, but by design - you can’t deterministically tell which button the user is going to click. So far so good. But, you program for the things that you expect to happen, and handle the rest as errors. If you look at the branching topology of well-written c…

Programmers aren't deterministic either. If I ask ten programmers to come up with a solution to the same problem, I'm not likely to get ten identical copies. Different programmers, even competent experienced programmers, might have different priorities that aren't in the requirements. For example, trading off program maintainability or portability over performance. The same could apply to LLMs, or even different runs…

Not really, we have many implementations of web servers or ftp clients, but they all follow the same protocol. So you can pair any two things that talk the same protocol and have a consistent systems. If you gave ten programmers a specs, you get ten implementations that follows the specs. With LLMs, you get random things.

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#743

Post by bgwalter »

infecto wrote: post #737
bgwalter wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It makes no sense at all, it's cuckooland, are you all on crazy pills? Frequent LLM usage impairs thinking. The LLM has no connection to reality, and it takes over people's minds.

Sounds like you’re taking crazy pills. Far to early from any of the studies done so far to come to your conclusion.

The LLM proponents are so desperate now that they have to resort to personal insults. Are investors beginning to realize the scam?

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#745

Post by infecto »

bgwalter wrote: post #743
infecto wrote: post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you’re taking crazy pills. Far to early from any of the studies done so far to come to your conclusion.

The LLM proponents are so desperate now that they have to resort to personal insults. Are investors beginning to realize the scam?

It’s strange how often criticism gets deflected with claims of personal attack. You’re citing a study that doesn’t say anything close to what you’re claiming. You’re fabricating conclusions that simply aren’t there.

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#746

Post by llflw »

OJFord wrote: post #661

I'm not sure about the 1.0/2.0/3.0 classification, but it did lead me to think about LLMs as a programming paradigm: we've had imperative & declarative, procedural & functional languages, maybe we'll come to view deterministic vs. probabilistic (LLMs) similarly. def __main__: You are a calculator. Given an input expression, you compute the result and print it to stdout, exiting 0. Should you be unable to do this, you…

Why bother using human language to communicate with a computer? You interact with a computer using a programming language—code—which is more precise and effective. Specifically: → In 1.0, you communicate with computers using compiled code. → In 2.0, you communicate with compilers using high-level programming languages. → In 3.0, you interact with LLMs using prompts, which arguably should not be in natural human language. Nonetheless, you should communicate with AGIs using human language, just as you would with other human beings.

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#747

Post by bgwalter »

infecto wrote: post #745
bgwalter wrote: post #743

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The LLM proponents are so desperate now that they have to resort to personal insults. Are investors beginning to realize the scam?

It’s strange how often criticism gets deflected with claims of personal attack. You’re citing a study that doesn’t say anything close to what you’re claiming. You’re fabricating conclusions that simply aren’t there.

I quoted zero studies in the comment you respond to and had no intentions of doing so. I quoted a study as well as personal observations under duress after a citation demand appeared.

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#748

Post by oytis »

semiquaver wrote: post #740
OJFord wrote: post #661

I'm not sure about the 1.0/2.0/3.0 classification, but it did lead me to think about LLMs as a programming paradigm: we've had imperative & declarative, procedural & functional languages, maybe we'll come to view deterministic vs. probabilistic (LLMs) similarly. def __main__: You are a calculator. Given an input expression, you compute the result and print it to stdout, exiting 0. Should you be unable to do this, you…

LLMs are not inherently indeterministic. Batching, temperature, and other things make them appear so when run by big providers but a locally-run LLM model at zero temperature will always produce the same output given the same input.

That's an improvement, they are still "chaotic" though in that small changes in input can change the output unpredictably strong

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#749

Post by gardenhedge »

tudorizer wrote: post #498
gardenhedge wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tony is iron man, not in him

Sure, I wasn't sure how to call the robot layer. Is is "Iron Main Suit"?

It's just a suit or armour. There are many and are referred to as Mark I, II, III etc

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#750

Post by infecto »

bgwalter wrote: post #747
infecto wrote: post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s strange how often criticism gets deflected with claims of personal attack. You’re citing a study that doesn’t say anything close to what you’re claiming. You’re fabricating conclusions that simply aren’t there.

I quoted zero studies in the comment you respond to and had no intentions of doing so. I quoted a study as well as personal observations under duress after a citation demand appeared.

I honestly have no idea what point you’re trying to make now. You opened with bold claims and zero evidence, then acted like being asked for a citation was some kind of duress. If you’re going to assert sweeping conclusions, expect to be challenged. That’s not an attack, it’s basic discourse.
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