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String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

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Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#741

Post by josh-sematic »

LeroyRaz wrote: post #452
rachofsunshine wrote: post #149

[Former member of that world, roommates with one of Ziz's friends for a while, so I feel reasonably qualified to speak on this.] The problem with rationalists/EA as a group has never been the rationality, but the people practicing it and the cultural norms they endorse as a community. As relevant here: 1) While following logical threads to their conclusions is a useful exercise, each logical step often involves some…

I mean, isn't the problem that they actually aren't that smart or rational. They're just a group of people who've built their identity around believing themselves to be smart... They're also not freethinkers. They're a community that demand huge adherence to their own norms.

Yes. Hard to imagine a more hypocritical outcome of “free thinking” than “think like me or die”

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#742

Post by PaulHoule »

CuriousCosmic wrote: post #495
PaulHoule wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My best friend in college knew she was a woman when she was a small child (though her mom and her birth certificate disagreed.) Nobody was going to talk her out of it. She got kicked out of the Air Force Academy on account of it. The nation's loss was my gain because she was the most awesome engineering student and science fiction fan and after working in many military-industrial complex jobs she's working on a proje…

> He's taking a cocktail of drugs that gets prescribed via telemedicine and was telling us about the serious side effects he was suffering: one of these drugs, spironolactone, is primarily a drug that alters your mineral metabolism but has the effect of suppressing testosterone if you take 20x the normal dose. (My doc gives it to me for my blood pressure.) He has insatiable cravings for salt as a result. It's worth n…

This person's 'weirdness' is, I think, a neurodivergence which I won't offer a diagnosis of.

I don't think a gender transition will make this person whole, this person will just be a weird person who is also trans. The old problem will persist but now he (maybe she or something else later) will have additional side effects and other baggage not to mention lost opportunities such as not being able to be a father.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#743

Post by hackandthink »

On the fringes of the rationalist community, there are obviously questionable figures who may be playing an evil game (Bankman Fried) or have lost their way intellectually and morally.

My impression from occasional visits to astral codex ten, however, is that the vast majority of people are reasonable and sometimes succeed to make the world a better place.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#744

Post by werdnapk »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #385
anon84873628 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling them a roaming band or "tactical death squad" is giving far too much credit. It is a handful of crazy people who convinced themselves that a couple murders would solve their problems. In particular the attack on border patrol was obviously random and illogical. And the fact that no one was convicted of the Pennsylvania murders seems to reflect more on the police and prosecutors than the intelligence of the pe…

Speaking of random and illogical, what prompted the Border Patrol to stop their car in the first place, I wonder? None of the news stories have elaborated on that.

Have you ever driven near the border? You'll be flagged for doing anything out of the ordinary with your car. If you have to pull over for a moment to find your passport for example, or if you made a wrong turn and try to turn around, or really anything that looks "suspicious", you risk getting additional searches or being pulled over.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#745

Post by dartos »

simplicio wrote: post #740
01100011 wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another thing I'll add after having spent a few years in a religious cult: It's all about the axioms. If you tweak the axioms you can use impeccable logic to build a completely incorrect framework that will appeal to otherwise intelligent(and often highly intelligent) people. Also, people are always less rational than they are able to admit. The force of things like social connection can very easily warp the reasonin…

Im kinda skeptical these folks were following some hyper-logical process from flawed axioms that led them to the rigorous solution: "I should go stab our land-lord with a samurai sword" or "I should start a shootout with the Feds". The rationalist stuff just seems like some meaningless patter they stuck ontop of more garden variety cult stuff.

If you convince someone smart who errs towards logic of your axioms, they’ll convince themselves to do whatever you want.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#746

Post by Hasu »

hackandthink wrote: post #743

On the fringes of the rationalist community, there are obviously questionable figures who may be playing an evil game (Bankman Fried) or have lost their way intellectually and morally. My impression from occasional visits to astral codex ten, however, is that the vast majority of people are reasonable and sometimes succeed to make the world a better place. Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

> My impression from occasional visits to astral codex ten, however, is that the vast majority of people are reasonable and sometimes succeed to make the world a better place.

This is a blog that for the last several months had a vigorous ongoing debate about whether or not shoplifters should be subject to capital punishment.

'Reasonable' is not the word I would choose.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#747

Post by cjbgkagh »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #567
taurath wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, it can often be trauma that causes the auto immunes. Seeing everything from a chemical standpoint only looks at half the picture. It’s hard to find a not traumatized autistic person for example.

I think it's circular, chicken and the egg. Especially if they were traumatized by their parents who themselves suffer undiagnosed auto-immune conditions. People without the auto-immune conditions can go through much more traumatizing conditions and not be anywhere nearly as adversely affected by it.

I should also add that the auto-immune stuff can be traumatizing on its own.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#748

Post by chasd00 »

PaulHoule wrote: post #447
skissane wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At best, with mentioning religion, you have declared your rightful intentions and at worst you have added yet another layer of tribalism to a ... debate. I don't think you understood what they were saying. They were saying that as a Christian, they've experienced being blamed for the misdeeds of other Christians which they personally had nothing to do with. The most important part of that statement isn't the word "…

If you have any unusual identity (e.g. a person inhabited by a fox spirit) you have a responsibility to be the person you can because you could be the first person in that category they meet. I grew up in Manchester, NH which was almost 100% white until 1990 or so. [1] My family was out for a bike ride and got a flat. A black couple (the man had just been transferred to the Raytheon factory where they make the radar…

I don’t think there’s enough trans people for everyone to have first hand exposure. I’m not aware of any in my neighborhood.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#749

Post by brookst »

adastra22 wrote: post #566
brookst wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No true Scotsman, really?

Conservatism is a movement dating back to the French Revolution, arguably further back, didn't originate in America, and isn't defined by or limited to the Democratic Party / Republican Party divide. Trumpism is not conservatism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism

Language evolves. Saying that today’s conservatives are not true conservatives is the literal definition of the no true Scotsman fallacy.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#750

Post by lukan »

yawboakye wrote: post #689
shadowgovt wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of philosophy throughout history seems to operate this way. I think philosophy is a noble pursuit, but it's worth noting how often people drew very broad conclusions, and then acted on them, from not very much data. Consider the dozens of theories of the constitution of the world from the time of the Greek thinkers (even the atomic theory doesn't look very much at all like atoms as we now understand them), or th…

very few philosophers dared to live by their theories. the famous failures of aristotle (in the case of alexander) and plato in syracuse (where he saw firsthand that the philosopher-king is at best a book character) are good examples. seneca didn’t live stoically: he was avaricious and didn’t bother to incite civil war over unpaid debt, if ancient sources are to be believed. he failed horribly with nero, who later in…

And then there is Rousseau, who wrote books about raising children. But raising his own was too much.
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