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Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

reuters.com

741–750 of 1001 posts

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#741
post #21

Everything else aside, this is an absolutely fantastic development and I really hope the ceasefire holds and all hostages are released. I just fear this will cause western media and politicians to and declare the crisis to be over (after it had began on Oct. 7, of course absolutely out of the blue and without any context...) and go back to pretending everything is back to normal. Never mind that Gaza is still in ruin…

> Never mind that Gaza is still in ruins, the west bank is still being annexed, Israel still has the dual role of "all authority, no obligations" over the Palestinians, while making it pretty clear they have no vision for them at all, apart from "maybe they just vanish into thin air tomorrow".

It was pretty much like that before. They're just being a lot more open about wanting to wipe them out.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#742
post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> His base and his cabinet is full of the most hard-line pro-israel figures imaginable, but then he goes forward and quotes Jeffrey Sachs and ostensibly pressures Netanyahu into accepting the ceasefire Only Nixon could go to China [1]. To the degree the Israel-Palestine war could have helped America, it already has. Hezbollah has given way to a power-sharing government in Lebanon. Syria, miraculously, is a wild card-…

> To the degree the Israel-Palestine war could have helped America, it already has. Fifty thousand people are dead, many of whom were underage, and most of the universities and hospitals in Gaza are destroyed. Like the Iraq war or Tianamen Square, this is something people are going to keep bringing up for decades. Syria is arguably the only good outcome, and it's not clear whether that was anything to do with Israel/…

It pretty obviously has to do with Israeli/US action by wrecking Hezbollah, and eroding Russian and Iranian deterrence.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#743

Hamas was offered a ceasefire under exactly the same terms in May, and refused it. Since then: * Ismail Haniyeh, the leader of the Hamas political wing, was killed in Tehran * Yahyah Sinwar, the leader of the Al-Qassam Brigades, was killed in Gaza * Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Lebanese Hezbollah, was killed in Beirut * Hashem Safieddine, Nasrallah's successor, was killed a week later * Large swathes of Hezbollah'…

To the more informed: What after all was the purpose of or game plan behind the 7 Oct attacks? Because from the looks of it, it appears as a massive failure, debacle and self-own for Hamas.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are aware, I hope, that Israel pulled back from Gaza completely in 2005, and from Sinai in 1980? It’s been growing smaller since 1973 (and never technically annexed any area it did temporarily take in a war)

That's not correct. Here is a map of how the West Bank settlements have grown over the years, from 1967 until 2024: https://apnews.com/a-look-at-how-settlements-have-grown-in-t...

You are aware, I hope, that Gaza is not in the West Bank?

The west bank has borders with Jordan and Israel.

Gaza has borders with Egypt and Israel.

Israel indeed never pulled from the West Bank, and sadly, it does let settlers live there. But it did not grow the taken area. And when Israel pulled from Gaza, it removed the settlers.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#745
post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are aware, I hope, that Israel pulled back from Gaza completely in 2005, and from Sinai in 1980? It’s been growing smaller since 1973 (and never technically annexed any area it did temporarily take in a war)

Is that true though, given that Israel informally takes over more and more of the West Bank? The settlers...

[deleted]

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#746
post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To the degree the Israel-Palestine war could have helped America, it already has. Fifty thousand people are dead, many of whom were underage, and most of the universities and hospitals in Gaza are destroyed. Like the Iraq war or Tianamen Square, this is something people are going to keep bringing up for decades. Syria is arguably the only good outcome, and it's not clear whether that was anything to do with Israel/…

It pretty obviously has to do with Israeli/US action by wrecking Hezbollah, and eroding Russian and Iranian deterrence.

Assad was not being propped up by Hezbollah!

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is a good development. Everything in this part of the world is on a rinse snd repeat cycle ever since the Assyrians and the Babylonians - it hasn't changed much except maybe its actually a little more humane then it was in the past (which says something). Sorry for the cynical take but this just does a temporary stop.

That's not true at all. The current conflict isn't some thousand year old feud. It was very much caused by the deliberate provocation and importation of European settlers via Zionism. It's easy to wave our hands and say "it's so complicated!" or "they've been doing this for thousands of years!" but it's not complicated, much like apartheid South Africa, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were not complicated. Colonialis…

What a pile of nonsense...

Whose colony is Israel? Do you even understand what this word means?

You are just parroting some propaganda lines that you don't understand. The propaganda lines that were specifically constructed to appeal to emotions (by referencing European colonialism that started with exploring Africa and India with subsequent conquest, which did result in many bad things, but has nothing to do with what happened in Israel beyond some superficial similarity).

Colonialism was bad because the colonial powers took freedoms away from the local population, siphoned their wealth to the country-colonizer while devastating the colony's inhabitants. Israel did nothing of sorts. It never wanted to have anything to do with the local population. In fact, one of the major sources of conflict was that Jewish population that came to replace the Turks who owned the land worked by the locals didn't want the locals to work that land anymore. And the landless peasants thus became unemployed / unemployable.

So, Arabs living in Israel used to be servants to the Turks, but once Jews replaced the Turks, and "freed" the Arabs, the later discovered themselves to be useless and without means of sustaining themselves. Not a good spot to be in, but hey, at least now they were "free" (I do use this ironically, I don't think they wanted that kind of freedom). Arabs, of course, thought about former Turkish land as their own (because they used to work it), but it's no more theirs than it is Jewish or whoever else inhabited that area historically.

Bottom line, claiming land based on some historical past that was cancelled by more recent historical events is a road to nowhere. And if you try to follow it, Jews probably have a better claim to that territory than Arabs, who invaded and occupied that territory later.

But, more importantly, today, the conflict isn't even about the land at all. All major players would be willing to make territorial concessions, if the core of the problem was addressed. And people are at the core of the problem, not the land. Something needs to be done with the Arabs inhabiting the occupied territories: they need to get some kind of a political status with an eye to permanency. Either completely abandon the program of building an independent state and join some other country, or the opposite. But neither seems likely. And so the conflict will go on for as long as this issue isn't solved.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#748
post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are aware, I hope, that Israel pulled back from Gaza completely in 2005, and from Sinai in 1980? It’s been growing smaller since 1973 (and never technically annexed any area it did temporarily take in a war)

Is that true though, given that Israel informally takes over more and more of the West Bank? The settlers...

Yes, that is true that Israel pulled back from Gaza completely in 2005, removing its settlers in the process.

Gaza and the West Bank are distinct.

Israel never pulled back from the West Bank, but that part of the occupation is the same size as it was in 1967. The West Bank occupation did not grow smaller (nor did it grow larger - it's the same size). Sadly, Israel does let settlers settle there, but if an agreement is ever reached, they will likely be removed like those in Gaza.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#749
post #21

Everything else aside, this is an absolutely fantastic development and I really hope the ceasefire holds and all hostages are released. I just fear this will cause western media and politicians to and declare the crisis to be over (after it had began on Oct. 7, of course absolutely out of the blue and without any context...) and go back to pretending everything is back to normal. Never mind that Gaza is still in ruin…

> And never mind that Israel still has a fundamentalist, authoritarian government

All true, very true. Of course the other bunch will slaughter you for drawing a cartoon.

I submit that you have a responsibility to be comprehensive when posting.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are aware, I hope, that Israel pulled back from Gaza completely in 2005, and from Sinai in 1980? It’s been growing smaller since 1973 (and never technically annexed any area it did temporarily take in a war)

I don't think the Palestinians expelled from the West Bank by Israeli settlers agree with that

Can you find, on the map, an area which was not occupied by Israel in 1968, but was occupied on Oct 6 2023 (before the Hamas attack on Israel which prompted Israel's re-occupation of Gaza in 2023-2024?)

Some are being relocated inside the West Bank, which is horrible, heinous and possibly a war crime, but they remain within the (occupied since 1967) west bank.

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