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Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

blog.dropbox.com

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Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#741

Post by monero-xmr »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #586
elric wrote: post #90

I'm always a bit confused by profitable companies with (presumably) large reserves laying off lots of people. I get that they want to remain profitable. But sure 500ish people could be put to some use? A new product, a new market, a spinoff. Whatever? Are you telling me that no one in such a big, wealthy company of clever engineers has any use for a bunch of talented people?

Interestingly enough, I once worked at a company that saw how huge amounts of money could be made taking the exact opposite approach. This all came about because this company had built a couple of hugely successful, and profitable, enterprise software products. So this company then decided to plow a ton of money into building out other products. The company was also pretty famous for having a high employee bar, and t…

It’s better for cash cow companies to acquire startups with PMF and real revenues. Let the market experiment and then pay for the successes. Investors and founders win, the company doesn’t waste it pretending to be a startup. Any other cash should be returned in dividends or buy backs.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#742

Post by enugu »

njtransit wrote: post #561
tschellenbach wrote: post #551

The same forces that enable high tech salaries, also make layoffs more likely. - The market for talent is competitive. So companies bid up to the absolute max they can - The market for managers is also competitive. Creating dynamics that lead to larger teams and raises for team members - Companies allow things like remote work, which is a perk, but also has a lot of abuse in terms of how much work gets done The end r…

A somewhat sensible take, but the issue isn’t just healthcare. A lot of your life is based off of long-term, fixed cost cash flow. E.g. you can’t pay less on your mortgage just because you got fired. Even with savings, getting laid off is highly disruptive, and, if done as part of a broader downturn in the market, you may never recover the required cash flow to enable your lifestyle.

There seems to be an analogy to servers being capable enough for usual demand(income>spending), but fails due to some downtime for some servers(out of a job) or peak loads(medical emergency). This can be amortized by having data centers serving multiple apps(social security, insurance - but they dont always exist).

One main fault in the analogy is that in an economic crisis, there is a vicious cycle of income loss which leads to lower demand leading to more lost jobs. This coordination failure can be handled by fiscal/monetary policy. Whereas server failure, even when widespread due to a virus doesn't happen recursively like that.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#743

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

steveBK123 wrote: post #380

Very generous severance packages and companies/laders should be commended for this. If it's a one-and-done big cut with generous packages to save the company, then good on them. Somehow overhiring and maintaining said headcount long enough to need to do a 20% cut is probably less commendable, but not exactly an outlier there in the current climate. I've always wondered about all these standalone "point solution" comp…

> it strikes me that more big companies would rather have a one-stop shop full of 80% solutions than pay for 100 different SaaS.

Strongly agree (unfortunately I might add, because I'm not a fan of "the big just keep getting bigger). When it comes to data management, tons of companies are really concerned about access controls, policies and DLP (data loss prevention). In my experience setting up these policies and rules correctly, and appropriately monitoring them, is very difficult and easy to get wrong (many data breaches are a consequence of this). This is especially common when you need to bidirectionally share content with third parties, you may want to give some of those parties access control rights on some data buckets, etc.

I was at a previous company where we were essentially all on Google Workspace. Google Drive's access controls for sharing with third parties used to really suck, though they've improved in recent years. We had teams that wanted to use Dropbox enterprise because their third party sharing features were much, much better. The problem is that I spent a ton of time learning all of the access control and management policies in Google Drive (which aren't great, mind you), and then I needed to spend another large amount of time learning an entirely different interface and set of rules for Dropbox. I almost had a breach because a checkbox buried down somewhere was checked incorrectly. Also, adding Dropbox meant I had a host of additional SOC 2 compliance checks that I needed to validate.

Meanwhile, sharing features in Google Drive (of Google Workspace) have largely gotten "good enough", as of the past couple years.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#744

Post by teqsun »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #586
elric wrote: post #90

I'm always a bit confused by profitable companies with (presumably) large reserves laying off lots of people. I get that they want to remain profitable. But sure 500ish people could be put to some use? A new product, a new market, a spinoff. Whatever? Are you telling me that no one in such a big, wealthy company of clever engineers has any use for a bunch of talented people?

Interestingly enough, I once worked at a company that saw how huge amounts of money could be made taking the exact opposite approach. This all came about because this company had built a couple of hugely successful, and profitable, enterprise software products. So this company then decided to plow a ton of money into building out other products. The company was also pretty famous for having a high employee bar, and t…

Was this Insight Software? I usually wouldn't ask since you didn't volunteer the name, but seeing as throwaway is in your username I'd figured I'd ask.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#745

Post by s1artibartfast »

midhhhthrow wrote: post #733
njtransit wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A somewhat sensible take, but the issue isn’t just healthcare. A lot of your life is based off of long-term, fixed cost cash flow. E.g. you can’t pay less on your mortgage just because you got fired. Even with savings, getting laid off is highly disruptive, and, if done as part of a broader downturn in the market, you may never recover the required cash flow to enable your lifestyle.

This why we need the tiny home movement combined with progressive property taxes - 0 prop tax bracket for lowest 20% property values If you have mortgage then you don’t really own your house.

Seems like this would hurt those laid off here. They are probably in the top 20% of property values.

That said, I think it is a pretty bad idea. Use of public funds dont increase with property value, it just means you have deeper pockets. I would be more in favor of flat taxes on homes independent of value, so people pay their fair share for community resources consumed.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#747

Post by jedberg »

randomdata wrote: post #470
siliconc0w wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a libertarian in most things but I still don't like layoffs from profitable companies. Like it's probably not good for our society that people have to up end their life every few years and probably move to find a new job. Both my parents stayed in the same job for their careers and it meant they could stay in the same place, have kids, build ties to the community, etc. Seems important if you want to not die out a…

> Like it's probably not good for our society that people have to up end their life every few years and probably move to find a new job. The thing is, Dropbox is done (as in feature complete). Like when the construction of a building completes, many people are "laid off" because they aren’t needed anymore. Yeah, you need to keep some people around for things like maintaining the building, but not to the scale of the…

Interesting insight about construction. I think you're right.

We see this ad hoc in software now. When there is a mass layoff, someone will go get a new job, and then try to bring on all of their previous coworkers. Or a group will go off and start a startup which (if they're lucky) will get acquired and they get to keep working together.

Which now makes me think, if you're a big company, maybe it behooves you to offer a highly functioning team a seed round instead of individual severances...

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#748

Post by InkCanon »

ericmcer wrote: post #376
elric wrote: post #90

I'm always a bit confused by profitable companies with (presumably) large reserves laying off lots of people. I get that they want to remain profitable. But sure 500ish people could be put to some use? A new product, a new market, a spinoff. Whatever? Are you telling me that no one in such a big, wealthy company of clever engineers has any use for a bunch of talented people?

It always seemed common sense to me that once a piece of software became stable and profitable you would need a much smaller engineering staff than when it was being built. The opposite seems to happens and orgs 10X their engineer headcount once they start making money. It makes sense to keep some high performers and a few redundancies to stabilize/modernize it and make small improvements, but it feels like tech got…

The present value of your org is your old products, all futures gains are from new products. The tech industry is littered with tombstones of companies that sat coasted on the success of an older product. Conversely there's a fascinating habit of really smart people in the right environment (Google, Bell Labs, Xerox PARC etc) to create things of enormous value. Things that were just a side project include AWS, Slack, the transistor and transformer architecture. All these companies are really trying to be incubators for the next 100x thing.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#749

Post by ZephyrBlu »

not_your_vase wrote: post #608
tschellenbach wrote: post #551

The same forces that enable high tech salaries, also make layoffs more likely. - The market for talent is competitive. So companies bid up to the absolute max they can - The market for managers is also competitive. Creating dynamics that lead to larger teams and raises for team members - Companies allow things like remote work, which is a perk, but also has a lot of abuse in terms of how much work gets done The end r…

> high tech salaries Are they really high? They are not that different from UPS driver salaries. Just the other day I clicked on the website of some random law firm's career page. I wasn't happy with what I saw (in the context of my own career). Some researchers with 1 year of experience with starting salary of 450k+... tech salaries look high as long as you don't check other professions.

This doesn't really make sense. What is a "researcher" at a law firm? Lawyers at top firms are on fixed pay schedules, starting at 180k as a 1st year going up to something like 450k after 8yrs (?).

Tech is high earning. It gets beat out by high finance and partner-level roles in e.g. law though. If someone is earning 450k in their first year it's probably similar to a quant finance role.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#750

Post by Quothling »

carabiner wrote: post #500
AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #466

Remember how there used to be a blog (or maybe it was a Tumblr, I forget) that documented every "Our incredible journey" post that inevitably announced the start-up's closure? I think we need another one for "An update from ", as this has seemingly become the standard subject to use when you're announcing layoffs or data breaches. I saw an identical headline earlier today from Sony announcing a studio closure: https:…

This guy takes "full responsibility," even.

When a CEO takes full responsibility for these things it doesn't mean that they submit themselves to the punishment that internet users might want. It's the CEO telling their impacted employees that, no matter how well you did as an employee, you would still have been impacted. It's the CEO showing you empathy for the hurt they cause you for having failed to steer the company in a viable direction.

These messages are obviously never going to be well received, but at least people can find comfort in the fact that it's because Dropbox is shifting direction and strategy and not because they were bad employees. Stuff like this happens in business. Maybe you've focused on private sales and want to shift to enterprise sales or fund investments at which point your company no longer needs it's sales and marketing departments because the company mission will be radically different. Changing course is a CEO taking responsibility for the company.

It is what it is.

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