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Fraud, so much fraud

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Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#741

Post by [deleted] »

starspangled wrote: post #685
klenwell wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think my favorite Simpsons gag is the episode where Lisa enlists a scientist (voiced by Stephen Jay Gould) to run tests to debunk some angel bones that were found at a construction site. In the middle of the episode, the scientist bicycles up to report, dramatically, that the tests "were inconclusive". In the end, it's revealed that the bones were a fraud concocted by some mall developers to promote their new mall.…

I think he didn't want to run tests or present results that might be contrary to the mob's dogma, for fear of retribution.

[deleted]

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#742

Post by dmix »

starspangled wrote: post #685
klenwell wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think my favorite Simpsons gag is the episode where Lisa enlists a scientist (voiced by Stephen Jay Gould) to run tests to debunk some angel bones that were found at a construction site. In the middle of the episode, the scientist bicycles up to report, dramatically, that the tests "were inconclusive". In the end, it's revealed that the bones were a fraud concocted by some mall developers to promote their new mall.…

I think he didn't want to run tests or present results that might be contrary to the mob's dogma, for fear of retribution.

Or it was merely useful excuse for the narrative about flawed humans and anti science vs science arc

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#743

Post by Chris2048 »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #472
molave wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's disheartening to think that the virtues you are told to have as a kid are considered "weak sauce" once you are an adult.

The reason many people hate children is because children are not satisfied with the level of epistemology that most people can provide them, and have no compunction in saying “that answer is unsatisfactory” Hence why institutional pedagogy is so often rote and has nothing to do with understanding - when we know science of learning says that every human craves understanding (montessori, piaget etc…) In fact, the short…

I personally dislike the way many adults (parents) effectively poison the discourse with their children by giving biased answers that

a) maintain the status quo that they, the adult, are all-knowing and generally right, and

b) serves their own purposes (e.g. we can't go to the toy shop, they ran out of toys) rather than deal with the tantrum from just saying "no".

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#745

Post by Chris2048 »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #692
wredue wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science sent us to the moon. “Do your own research” sent millions to their graves. “Do your own research” is a movement that is fraught with grifting and basically foundationally just fraud to the core. “Science” definitely has some fraudsters, but remains the best institution we have in the search for truth.

"Science" didn't send anyone to the moon. The science of getting to the moon was centuries old when it was applied. Engineers, working from alloys to computers, sent people to the moon.

> "Science" didn't send anyone to the moon.

> The science of getting to the moon was centuries old

Not sure I understand, does "Science" lose its capital after a century?

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#746

Post by cwalv »

sitkack wrote: post #169
testfoobar wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar - when I was younger, I would never have suspected that a scientist was committing fraud. As I've gotten older, I understand that Charlie Munger's observation "“Show me the incentive and I will show you the outcome.” is applicable everywhere - including science. Academic scientists' careers are driven by publishing, citations and impact. Arguably some have figured how to game the system to advance their caree…

If humanity is to mature, we should be an open book when it comes to incentives and build a world purposefully with all incentives aligned to the outcomes we collectively agree upon. https://fs.blog/great-talks/psychology-human-misjudgment/ Charlie Munger's Misjudgment #1: Incentive-caused Bias https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-2yIO8cnvw https://fs.blog/bias-incentives-reinforcement/

> with all incentives aligned to the outcomes we collectively agree upon

Some things are simply not possible.

> If humanity is to mature

Recognizing and working within the constraints is maturity

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#747

Post by BobbyTables2 »

dekhn wrote: post #62

These sorts of articles raise so many thoughts and emotions in me. I was trained as a computational biologist with a little lab work and ran gels from time to time. Personally, I hated gels- they're finicky, messy, ugly, and don't really tell you very much. But molecular biology as a field runs on gels- it's the priimary source of results for almost everything in molbio. I have seen more talks and papers that rested…

I feel this way about every flashy startup with billion dollar valuations.

It seems amazing that they are pulling off what seems impossible.

Years later, we learn they really aren’t. They unjustifiably made a name for themselves by burning VC money instead of running a successful business.

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#748

Post by frowin »

As a scientist, I'm so glad that we're forced to publish all our primary/secondary data along with the publication itself. It's stored in a repository which is "locked" when the DOI (digital object identifier) is generated. Overall, the publishing process is tedious and frustrating, but this extra work is crucial and cases like this makes that very clear. However, in most of the recent cases you didn't even need to look at the data as even the publication itself shows the misconduct.

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#749

Post by ProllyInfamous »

cdaringe wrote: post #733
rebanevapustus wrote: post #725

I was the victim of a pretty bizarre super in-your-face academic theft. Someone snooped a half-finished draft of mine off GitHub and...actually got it published in a real journal: https://forbetterscience.com/2024/05/29/who-are-you-matthew-... In spite of having a full commit log (with GitHub verified commits!!!) of both the code AND the paper, both arxiv and the journal didn't seem to care or bother at all. Anyhow,…

Can you speak more to the “not caring at all” bit? I believe you, but how did you engage them? Did you end up publishing your work eventually? forbetterscience seems like a good idea, but the writing style, the images, and even the about page gave me pause on if this is a reliable site for trustworthy science commentary

>I believe you, but how did you engage them?

From the article, it seems the engagement came in the form of DMCA take-down requests from university lawyers... which the publication then largely ignored for a considerable period of time (possibly due to counter-DMCA).

In an unrelated scientific field, EE, I recently witnessed how the DMCA process could be used by an "engineer" to silence criticism of his hybrid vehicle battery "upgrades" [2] — similar to Australian company DCS's snafu/lawsuit [1].

Just disgusting, these vultures that know [how to steal/lie/obfuscate] just well-enough to be dangerous... including how to manipulate our DMCA system to their dishonest advantage.

[1] youtube.com/watch?v=_QNMVMlx48E&pp

[2] theautopian.com/toyota-prius-owners-can-soon-swap-tired-old-batteries-for-sodium-ion-cells-but-drama-rages/

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#750

Post by antisthenes »

antisthenes wrote: post #183
testfoobar wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar - when I was younger, I would never have suspected that a scientist was committing fraud. As I've gotten older, I understand that Charlie Munger's observation "“Show me the incentive and I will show you the outcome.” is applicable everywhere - including science. Academic scientists' careers are driven by publishing, citations and impact. Arguably some have figured how to game the system to advance their caree…

> Similar - when I was younger, I would never have suspected that a scientist was committing fraud. Unfortunately many less bright people seem to interpret this as "never trust science", when in reality science is still the best way to push humanity forward and alleviate human suffering, _despite_ all the fraud and misaligned incentives that may influence it.

Culture of being proud of ignorance is on full display in the replies to my comment, btw.

Exactly the kind of less bright people that I inferred about. People so devoid of common sense, that they utterly reject anyone who applies systematic thinking. Unreal.

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