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Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

zdnet.com

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Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#741

Post by zer0zzz »

setopt wrote: post #738
zer0zzz wrote: post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Easy password sharing with my wife. We have separate private vaults and a shared vault, and moving a passwords between these vaults is seamless. Not sure about this one. I don't even collaborate passwords in Apple keychain with my own family. > - Sync has been seamless for years. I don’t have to worry about e.g. iCloud corrupting my password database and having to restore from off-site backups. Sync with iCloud D…

Thanks for the detailed reply! :)

I had decided a detailed list is better than a typical snarky-ass reply

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#742

Post by e40 »

Washuu wrote: post #393
sgarland wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally speaking, Electron apps are larger and slower than their native cousins. I just checked on my M1 Mac, and between the Safari extension (which somehow consumes more memory than the app itself) the main app, and various helpers / renderers, it clocks in at 410 MB of RAM. I'll give you that it's also acting as an SSH Agent, but that still seems rather large for the functionality. Personally, I noticed a slowdo…

It takes 10+ seconds to load the 1Password extension window in Firefox after some upgrade this year. They really screwed something up.

Loads instantly for me on macOS.

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#743

Post by crubier »

mrtesthah wrote: post #638
crubier wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh the classic irrational HN hate on JS/Electron... 1Password 8 takes <1s to load from scratch on my machine, and is instant most of the time since it runs in background.

when every app loads an entire duplicate browser stack then your RAM is wasted out of cheapness and negligence. Moreover, I shouldn’t need a cutting edge microprocessor just to look at my saved passwords. Multiplied across 15 million 1Password users, even 1 second amounts to about six months of collective time wasted for each app launch. I would never hire any developer who disregarded their users’ time, UI experienc…

50% of people on HN seems unable to understand that developing UIs using web technologies is 2-3x faster than using Native frameworks. If anything, just from the benefit of not having to develop 5 versions of the UI (MacOS, Windows, Linux, iOS, Android) but just 1 responsive web app.

In my perspective clearly the blatant disregard for UI experience is wanting to develop native apps just for hypothetical RAM savings or similar ideological preconceptions on performance that are not real or relevant in practice.

Electron apps are now everywhere because THEY WIN. Figma, Slack, VSCode all succeed in large part thanks to being Electron apps. HN denial of this simple fact is copium

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#744

Post by nashashmi »

briffle wrote: post #538
nashashmi wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I miss lastpass auto login. And i wish bitwarden had a merge for duplicate entries. Otherwise, bw is good. I also wish i was able to utilize totp keys like i can with iCloud

I use TOTP keys in bitwarden all the time. Along with passkeys that has recently been added.

Totp is behind a paywall.

https://bitwarden.com/pricing/#:~:text=for%20Organizational%...

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#746

Post by freediver »

pasc1878 wrote: post #506
selykg wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest reason I'm moving away from 1Password is the abysmal support for Safari Profiles. It's so bad it's ridiculous. Right now for instance I have a Personal profile, and a few work specific ones around admin, development, and my day-to-day work to split things off easily. I have 1Password unlocked in one profile and it works in that, but if I switch to any other profile it needs to be unlocked, then it tells m…

This is my main gripe as well. My current workaround is to use Orion as my browser. Its profiles are clunkier than safari and don't exist on iOS (but I don't care about that)

Can you describe what do you mean by 'clunkier'?

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#747

Post by eviks »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #716
eviks wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(sorry about my misleading playful paraphrasing) The program itself might not get information efficiently to do conflict resolution (or not at all): for example, you edit a file offline and sync, Dropbox and friends wouldn't be smart enough to just append both of a few bytes worth of data that a password-manager controlled service could since it would be aware of the data structure but would just dump both files, and…

> Though maybe this is not an issue as you mention some of the keepass-based apps that go the "app-sync" route instead of manually placed file? Right, my main concern here is programs that talk directly to the service's API, because that's the easiest to implement in a correct way. Dumb file storage, but without the worry of stale versions appearing. Though most people don't need their vault to be robust against simu…

> Though most people don't need their vault to be robust against simultaneous offline edits from multiple devices.

This is one of those very rare cases with potentially huge negative effect to make it into a mandatory feature.

> Dumb file storage

Which still suffers from inefficient incremental updates. Curious whether those other managers deal with that (do they split your vault into parts)?

> What kind of documents would I put in a password file?

Whatever documents you want to securely share with others, various scanned docs, so it's not just a few megs, (e.g., Bitwarden offers up to 1G encrypted file attachments) (though don't use this either, mine is just a few megs)

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#748

Post by Dylan16807 »

eviks wrote: post #747
Dylan16807 wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Though maybe this is not an issue as you mention some of the keepass-based apps that go the "app-sync" route instead of manually placed file? Right, my main concern here is programs that talk directly to the service's API, because that's the easiest to implement in a correct way. Dumb file storage, but without the worry of stale versions appearing. Though most people don't need their vault to be robust against simu…

> Though most people don't need their vault to be robust against simultaneous offline edits from multiple devices. This is one of those very rare cases with potentially huge negative effect to make it into a mandatory feature. > Dumb file storage Which still suffers from inefficient incremental updates. Curious whether those other managers deal with that (do they split your vault into parts)? > What kind of documents…

> This is one of those very rare cases with potentially huge negative effect to make it into a mandatory feature.

The only thing you would need to make mandatory is a direct login to any storage service.

> Which still suffers from inefficient incremental updates. Curious whether those other managers deal with that (do they split your vault into parts)?

If it's a megabyte, who cares? You could have a way to split things or upload an update log, but it's not worth it.

If you need big attachments, then keep them outside the core vault file.

> Whatever documents you want to securely share with others

Sharing is where a dedicated service is useful.

But if a feature like that needs a paid service, it should be an optional upgrade.

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#749

Post by pasc1878 »

freediver wrote: post #746
pasc1878 wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my main gripe as well. My current workaround is to use Orion as my browser. Its profiles are clunkier than safari and don't exist on iOS (but I don't care about that)

Can you describe what do you mean by 'clunkier'?

Safari feels integrated, Orion is a collection of apps with the same icon, menus and functionality but with different configuration.

Each profile produces a separate Orion.app so you end up with multiple Orion's in your dock - Safari is still the same top level app.

Extensions - in Orion each app is totally separate, in Safari there is one list of extensions and you choose which ones you want in your profile, of course the Safari extensions are clunkier than Orion which is what this thread is about, 1password not working,

It also feels like Safari takes less memory using this approach but I have not measured this.

Bookmarks differ - Orion's are totally separate, Safari's are all one tree and each profile takes a different root in the tree for the Bookmarks Bar so it is easier to move Bookmarks between profiles in Safari. And favourites are the same in all Safari profiles whilst Orion are separate, I prefer Safari here but I can see some justification for Orion's total separation.

Just retried Safari - and discovered it is more difficult to switch profiles than I remebered. The list of profiles are at the bottom of the Window menu which is harder to get to than Orion being an icon or on the tool bar - Safari for iOS is better here as it puts the profile on the toolbar (presumably as there is no menu and only one window) I just rediscovered the quick way for safari - choose the window from the dock icon.

Orions sidebar is better as it removes the tabs from the top and also indents tabs that you open from the parent tab. However the sidebar is not up to the standard of Firefox's Tree Style Tab adding.

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#750

Post by blkhp19 »

lrhegeba wrote: post #398
selykg wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I noticed a "Notes" section in password items. So, I guess in theory you could utilize those. But my biggest one is wanting to store secure files. Think copies of a drivers license, signed documents or various certs and keys. That's not being covered here either for me sadly. It's not a super common situation for me so I can probably find an alternative app for that purpose. Edit: Also for notes, I'd just password pr…

for this requirement i choose to use encrypted sparse files (can be created with the disk manager app) which i store on the icloud. is only of use if you happen to have a laptop with you as mounting them is not supported in iOS

I paid for Disk Decipher for this use case - it was a great purchase! https://disk-decipher.app
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