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First new U.S. nuclear reactor since 2016 is now in operation

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Re: First new U.S. nuclear reactor since 2016 is now in operation

#741
post #719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Take a look at this https://thebiologist.rsb.org.uk/biologist-features/out-of-th... https://www.science.org/content/article/humans-are-worse-rad...

Is it the kind of wildlife we want to be reproducing? Is it the kind of wildlife you want as a pet? Is it the kind of wildlife you want to eat? No, this is not actually a good thing.

By definition you don't want wildlife as a pet. Is there a reason you think this is the "wrong" type of wildlife?

Re: First new U.S. nuclear reactor since 2016 is now in operation

#742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you only need to get expert consensus on which parts of the complexity are unnecessary.

A true expert can streamline their industry every time. Simply because most people who make decisions on process are not experts in the relevant field, but expert administrators who often lazily apply existing policies to new concepts that they never got the training to understand or put into context. Just look at any institutional review board: the breadth their expertise is always smaller than the relevant topics t…

OK, so then we just need to figure out how to identify a true expert and we're off to the races.

Re: First new U.S. nuclear reactor since 2016 is now in operation

#743

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people want 10-100x our current power production, they will build 10-100x solar and wind, because they are massively cheaper. Nukes have only ever got more expensive. Nukes might make sense on the moon.

Ignores context, diminishing returns, the lack of viable storage options at that scale (or even the current one). Gonna still put my money on the proven tech for 10-100x projects - its a social choice to make it expensive.

Right now little is spent on storage because dollars are overwhelmingly better spent building out generating capacity, even in places where noontime generation exceeds demand. When there is a strict excess of renewable generation, it will be time to begin building out storage. We have myriad viable storage options. Costs for storage are still falling fast.

Re: First new U.S. nuclear reactor since 2016 is now in operation

#744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's incredibly impressive. Since it takes approximately 6 years to build a reactor in China that amounts to about 4 reactors per year.

And total caoacity of zhose pales in comparison to wind, solar coal being built at the same time. Funny, the numbers are all there, all you have to do is comparing them to realize nuclear is far from growing.

It’s not nothing though. For the 8 nuclear plants the combined output will be 7GWe. That can power 50 million+ homes. That’s like a fifth of the population.

Re: First new U.S. nuclear reactor since 2016 is now in operation

#745
post #147

This caught my eye: "Prior to Vogtle Unit 3, the last nuclear reactor to start in the United States was Watts Bar Unit 2 in Tennessee. Construction on Watts Bar 2 began in 1973 but was suspended in 1985. Work resumed in 2007, and the reactor came online in 2016." More on that here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_Bar_Nuclear_Plant#Unit_2

I can't even imagine how you'd get the parts, and they probably can't change the plans either. Ok so I decided to look into it a bit more, and here are some interesting details from documents on the nrc.gov and EIA.gov: Here's some context for what was happening in 1985, from the eia: >"As a consequence of the identification of a large number of deficiencies shortly before the WBN Unit 1 license was expected to be is…

> I can't even imagine how you'd get the parts

I have no idea, but I would assume most parts are custom machined to spec. If that's true, you'd just need to find machine shops capable of making the parts.

Re: First new U.S. nuclear reactor since 2016 is now in operation

#746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s an extremely poor example. It’s a multi phase project and for many years government didn’t provide any funding as it was not a priority. It’s not like they were actively trying to build it for 47 years, they built multiple small parts of it through multiple phases but they were never trying to build the whole thing. It was just not anything important to complete.

The criticism still stands. It should not take 47 years from recognition that a road is needed to actually building it.

[deleted]

Re: First new U.S. nuclear reactor since 2016 is now in operation

#747
post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article's own summary: Our results point to a gap between expected and realized costs stemming from low resilience to time- and site-dependent construction conditions. Guess that's where they took it from. Skimming the paper it seems a large part of the issue is that it's difficult to mass produce something which needs to be integrated into a variable environment, and attempting to do so is detrimental compa…

There's got to be some middle ground between every reactor in the country being absolutely bespoke and on the other hand trying to build them in a factory like modular housing. IIRC one of the big differences/problems is that every one of them have completely different control rooms and control systems. To the point that you cannot train on one reactor and walk into another and operate it. If we at least standardized…

Yeah, I can't shake the feeling it should be possible to mass produce most of the difficult bits, and then have a per-site specific foundation of sorts.

Then again, perhaps it is one of those things where you actually need to make a few of 'em to gain experience.

Re: First new U.S. nuclear reactor since 2016 is now in operation

#748
post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But only lasts half that..

??? I think you’re thinking of US roads, which are generally shoddily constructed and poorly maintained compared to chinese ones. No, what you meant to say was “and only 47 people died constructing it!”

China has had more than 150 modern bridges collapse. Some of them collapsed in less than a year. China is not building or maintaining bridges any better than the US.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268466718_Statistic...

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-19365886

Re: First new U.S. nuclear reactor since 2016 is now in operation

#749

1.1GW for 30 BILLION dollars? Jeez, that's an insane amount of money for this little power. Probably pretty high cost per kWh, too, which has to be guaranteed by the government I guess. For comparison in my country they built a 1,6GW off-shore windfarm in 2 years with 0 government subsidy. I understand that a nuclear plant provides power 24/7, so it's not an entirely fair comparison. But the cost of nuclear power is…

I like to compare this to Site C in British Columbia https://www.bchydro.com/energy-in-bc/projects/site_c.html#:~.... If you are lucky enough to be blessed with remote untapped rivers that can be dammed in somewhat unpopulated mountain valleys (that's another story again), it seems to be far cheaper and safer. I would imagine that Nuclear power's main issue is first and foremost cost. If you could pull off completely safe nuclear power, it just winds up costing too dang much.

Re: First new U.S. nuclear reactor since 2016 is now in operation

#750
post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not saying what you think you're saying with those facts.

The value proposition for renewables left nukes far behind a long time ago. Nukes have no prospect of narrowing the gap even if they could be built and operated more cheaply, of which in any case no plausible signs are evident.

Nuclear works 24/7/365. Renewables don't. That's the value proposition. (And nuclear does operate more cheaply in China and South Korea)
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