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'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

aljazeera.com

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Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#741

Post by hluska »

theautist wrote: post #416
amluto wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think your take is entirely unreasonable, but I do think you’ve missed a critical detail: Hamas continues to attack Israel. So Israel’s military operation is contemporaneous with a threat, and does at least serve some degree of self-defense purpose. As I understand it (and wow, the press coverage is incomplete in so many ways), Hamas has a very large number of, approximately, these things: https://en.m.wikipe…

>So Israel’s military operation is contemporaneous with a threat, and does at least serve some degree of self-defense purpose There really is no self-defense purpose in my mind to what Israel is doing. It's more self-avenging as others mentioned. You can argue it's a preventative operation to prevent future attack by taking out Hamas, but the approach they're taking does not indicate that since it's completely counte…

What other options does Israel have?

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#742

Post by neonsunset »

dang wrote: post #2

All: if you're going to comment in this thread, please do not do so in the spirit of battle. The latter is off topic here, and the last thread HN had about this did not do well enough at keeping to the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . Instead, ask first whether you can find a place of compassion in yourself before commenting. If you can't, that's understandable, but then please don'…

Oh, but I will. For the headlines like this have no place on HN.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#743

Post by Georgelemental »

Nathanba wrote: post #249
hiddencost wrote: post #70

My political awareness was forged by the 9/11 terrorist attacks and the American response. The core lesson: the point of a terrorist attack is to trigger an over reaction. America wildly over reacted and became fundamentally hostile to Arab and Muslim people. This reaction led to some of the most successful recruiting of radicals in generations. Israel's response to this crisis seems to have failed to learn from that…

> the point of a terrorist attack is to trigger an over reaction I don't agree with that at all, the point of a terrorist attack is to continue a war of attrition. An overreaction is actually the worst thing that can happen to terrorists: It nullifies their attempt to win via small incremental attritional steps. The reason why the US didn't win the war against terror is because it didn't attack the core ideology that…

> US "overreacted" hard and made sure that Germany was forced to make the nazi ideology wholly illegal and every depiction of a nazi symbol in public illegal.

The US also poured a massive fortune into rebuilding the West German economy and society, to ensure it wouldn't fall to communism. Violence and repression alone would not have worked.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#744

Post by selimthegrim »

rayiner wrote: post #696

[flagged]

I suppose we’re going to take Dan, Beersheba, Gath and Ashkelon out of the Bible now

In 637 the non-urban population of Palestine (incl. Galilee) was still majority Jewish - Justinian had only turfed them out of Jerusalem. There was no genocide in 637.

Furthermore, no one elected Hamas as the restoration of the caliphate and spokesperson for entire Muslim world. They’re actually not Isis.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#745

Post by neonsunset »

xg15 wrote: post #576
nvm0n2 wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> The UN doesn't speak for the world, regardless of what they may claim. That might be true for Guterres but not for the GA. The delegations that voted were not directed by the UN but by their respective countries. No one forced them to vote for this. Israel itself gets its legitimacy from the UN resolution in 1949. > But why would anyone ask them to cease fire against an enemy that won't return the favour? My unders…

"Ceasefire" only applies to civilized parties than can actually uphold agreements, to which Hamas do not belong.

Either way, for the parent post being flagged, it is absolutely correct in its assessment and its flagged status is just a small glimpse on why the collective west faces the existential threat and does as much work at dismantling itself as its enemies (which too do so in the open).

The actual winning move would be strengthening sanctions against Iran and its proxies, quick eradication of any actual and perceived threats in the middle east and the lift of unofficial ban by the West to Ukraine to conduct military operations on the territory of ruskieland as well as supply of all long-range standoff munitions that are scheduled for a decommission in the next three to five years so that we can actually save money for US by being more efficient at doing so with immediate and second-order strategic benefits to everyone involved.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#746

Post by mvdtnz »

xg15 wrote: post #525

I don't want to start another top-level thread on this topic, as it is contentious enough already - but just as an aside, the UN General Assembly just passed a (symbolic) resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire with 153 to 10, an even stronger majority than the last resolution. Of course UN votes are always subject to all kinds of political considerations and power dynamics and the saying "nations have no frien…

There was a ceasefire. IDF ended it because Hamas fired rockets and didn't hold up their end of the hostage release bargain. There was a ceasefire before that, which Hamas broke by invading Israel and torturing, raping and murdering over a thousand innocent civilians.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#747

Post by aluminum96 »

adhamsalama wrote: post #308
iddan wrote: post #136

[flagged]

Over 18000 Palestinians were killed, about 70% of them were women and children. Many more under the rubble. 1.9 millions (85% of the population) are displaced. And you're calling people antisemitic (how original) because they care about the massacres and ethnic cleansing Israel is committing against Palestinians (who are in fact Semitic).

I'm going to nitpick your comment a bit, but this particular nit drives me crazy.

The term "antisemitic" is well-understood in English to refer to hostility towards Jews. I know the root "-semitic" is in there. Yes, Palestinians are also semitic, but that's not what anyone is trying to communicate when they use the word "antisemitic."

Please don't do it, because it's incredibly trivializing.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#748

Post by selimthegrim »

mminer237 wrote: post #384
acdha wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However supportive of Israel one may be and how repulsed one should be by Hamas, I'd say that we should not fool ourselves in that the military operation in Gaza is Israel defending itself ("Israel's right to defend itself" is now a commonplace phrase) rather than avenging itself. I’ve felt that as well, and I would add that even if you feel every action is justified I am skeptical that it’s not counterproductive.…

I think an even bigger driver of terrorism than conflict is the fact that most people in Palestine have lived their entire lives in a state wholly governed by terrorists. From birth, children constantly hear how murdering Jewish civilians is one of life's holy accomplishments, how Jews are all racist liars, how Israel shouldn't exist, how Hamas is their rightful glorious leaders, etc. You shouldn't underestimate the…

That article is factually misleading about Beersheba, the ad hoc committee switched it from the Jewish to the Arab state in 1948 but it was taken in the war.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#750

Post by ashirusnw »

wolverine876 wrote: post #397
EvgeniyZh wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaza has border with Egypt not controlled by Israel. In fact, ~150k people left Gaza in 2022, and numbers from 2023 are of similar scale [1]. I wouldn't call it a prison [1] https://twitter.com/Aizenberg55/status/1665745935589076992

I'm sure you're aware of the indefinite blockade? And what Hamas did before that? etc. Let's not have another debate that brings out the facts piecemeal; it's polarizing, for one thing, and it's also misleading to bring them out in isolation. Many following the issue know them by now.

I'm not aware. What are you talking about?
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