Earlier quoted context omitted.
The model is so far forward it refuses to do anything for you anymore and simply replies with "let me google that for you"
Well, I think that, despite being a joke, your comment is deeper than it looks like. As model capabilities increase, the likelihood that they interfere with the instructions that we provide increases as well. It’s really like hiring someone really smart on your team: you cannot expect them to be taking orders without ever discussing them, like your average employee would do. That’s actually a feature, not a bug, but…
Sam Altman returns as CEO, OpenAI has a new initial board
741–750 of 787 posts
Re: Sam Altman returns as CEO, OpenAI has a new initial board
#742Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think they didn't anticipate sucha a large backlash, especially from investors. They felt the backlash threatens OpenAI, both its non-profit and for-profit arms, so they reverted their decision, which in my opinion was a mistake, but time will tell.
Yeah, I guess so. I keep waffling between thinking it's some 4d chess thing, and thinking it's just normal human fallibility, where the board just made a massive mistake in predicting how it would go. But I just struggle so much to imagine that, because everyone I know in the industry, regardless of their level of expertise or distance from OpenAI, immediately knew how big a deal it was going to be, when we heard he…
Re: Sam Altman returns as CEO, OpenAI has a new initial board
#743Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, I think that, despite being a joke, your comment is deeper than it looks like. As model capabilities increase, the likelihood that they interfere with the instructions that we provide increases as well. It’s really like hiring someone really smart on your team: you cannot expect them to be taking orders without ever discussing them, like your average employee would do. That’s actually a feature, not a bug, but…
Much like the smart worker, wouldn’t the model asking questions lead to a better answer? Context is important, and if you haven’t provided sufficient context in your question, the worker or model would ask questions.
Re: Sam Altman returns as CEO, OpenAI has a new initial board
#744Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's also an unvalidated claim, predicated upon assumptions. I've hired people I "don't like" on a personal level. I care more about their ability to work positively with oters, and their professionalism and skill. Yet you and the parent poster have assumed he is hiring a cult, because he spends time evaluating? A weird assumption to make.
Why is your argument from authority relevant at all here? 1. For that matter, I would not work with a boss who doesn't recognize an argument from authority as a response. 2. Furthermore a boss who lacks critical thinking skills and can't recognize a mildly skeptical comment for what it is. 3. Why assume I'm rigidly taking any position re. Altman in particular? 4. "That's pathetic" is not "He's pathetic", so perhaps t…
Re: Sam Altman returns as CEO, OpenAI has a new initial board
#745Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah. I think the most realistically-achievable positive outcome is that Microsoft is forced to give up their new board-observer seat, which seems highly improper for them to have since the board they are observing is supposed to make decisions that benefit all of humanity equally. If Microsoft gets to have a fly on the wall in those discussions, it gives them a gold mine of juicy insider knowledge about which sector…
I doubt Microsoft will be punished for their role in this (it's not clear to me that they did anything wrong...), but I'll be surprised if OpenAI is allowed to still exist as a non-profit a couple years from now.
Musk and other donors are the most obvious aggrieved parties, and it is also arguably the case that every member of humanity has standing to sue for violation of the charter, because the charter explicitly declares that the primary fiduciary duty of OpenAI, Inc. (which is a non-profit) is to humanity broadly. (Therefore, every human is financially harmed by any charter violation, with such harm manifesting as a reduction in the net present value of the future benefits each human will receive from safe, broadly beneficial AGI.)
The SEC's role in fiduciary misconduct cases is not to rewrite a company's charter - that would be extremely improper and the opposite of their mandate. The SEC's mandate is to be the protectors of the status quo and of the original intent of the organizers of an entity. In this case, that means they will seek to protect the OpenAI non-profit's charter from efforts by Sam and others to erode the charter's power in violation of Sam's fiduciary duty to said charter.
The SEC's job in fiduciary misconduct situations is to remedy the situation by reversing improper governance decisions and forcing the fiduciary (Sam) to uphold their legal duty, which in Sam's case is his contractually bound duty to uphold the Charter of the non-profit entity named OpenAI, Inc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenAI#:~:text=the%20non%2Dpro....
OpenAI states this very clearly in multiple places on their website. For example:
"each director must perform their fiduciary duties in furtherance of its mission—safe AGI that is broadly beneficial" - https://openai.com/our-structure
If you would like to read about the types of remedies available in fiduciary duty violation cases, I recommend this resource:
Book Chapter:
REMEDIES FOR BREACH OF FIDUCIARY DUTY CLAIMS
https://m.winstead.com/portalresource/lookup/poid/Z1tOl9NPlu...For example (quoting from the book chapter above):
C. Permanent Injunction
A breach-of-fiduciary-duty plaintiff may be entitled to an award of a permanent injunction as a remedy. ...
The purpose of an injunction is to remove the advantage created by the wrongful act.
In the context of this suit, the permanent injunction or injunctions could block all of the following: • Permanently prohibit Microsoft from holding any board seat or board observer seat on the OpenAI board
• Permanently prohibit Microsoft from making mass employment offers to OpenAI staff (a practice which, in the case of bad faith situations such as this one, is known as "workforce raiding")
• Permanently prohibit Sam Altman from owning Microsoft stock or derivatives thereof
• Permanently prohibit Microsoft from receiving early indications of OpenAI research & product roadmaps earlier than the general public
• Permanently prohibit Sam Altman from receiving job offers at Microsoft or any of its subsidiaries until after a sufficient cooling-off period has elapsed since departing OpenAI, to limit future occurrences of the "revolving door" mechanic documented here:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38387518Re: Sam Altman returns as CEO, OpenAI has a new initial board
#746Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's also an unvalidated claim, predicated upon assumptions. I've hired people I "don't like" on a personal level. I care more about their ability to work positively with oters, and their professionalism and skill. Yet you and the parent poster have assumed he is hiring a cult, because he spends time evaluating? A weird assumption to make.
oh sorry - I didn't mean it in a nefarious way at all I think it's just human nature to not hire people you feel you won't get along with. If you're deeply involved in all your hires, then I feel you'll end up with an organization full of people that you get along with and who you like (and probably like you back). I wouldn't go so far as to say it'd make a personality cult - though with their lofty mission statement…
Re: Sam Altman returns as CEO, OpenAI has a new initial board
#747Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, it would not; they are already trying to catch up.
If you know the outcome is favourable then you go all in. Right now the other competitors are just trying to match GPT4, if they knew AGI was achievable then they would throw everything they have at it in order to not be left out.
I suppose maybe there are ones where they are slow-rolling because of their opinions about existential risk of AGI. But that’s not contingent on what OpenAI says or does.
Re: Sam Altman returns as CEO, OpenAI has a new initial board
#748Earlier quoted context omitted.
quickthrower2 says: > "Not this again!" I am unenlightened by your short missive. Perhaps there you could point to something clarifying your intent - something like, say: "This has been previously discussed ad nauseum in the Fortune magazine article at URL ..." or "Here's a similar post and the details of OpenAI URL ." Thank you.
It is a HN trope to say why does company X need so many employees. Usually said about world class companies. Usually because you can build something that looks like it in a weekend with React and MongoDB (although OpenAI you can’t prototype like that).
There was however a post titled "Why big tech companies need so many people" at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34734655
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quickthrower2 says >" Usually because you can build something that looks like it in a weekend"Yes, but that is a fair comparison, n'est-ce pas?
Re: Sam Altman returns as CEO, OpenAI has a new initial board
#749Earlier quoted context omitted.
How many of OpenAI's employees are actually developing the software they market? 700+ seems awfully high.
Not this again!
Q. How many programmers and engineers does it take to build an LLM and fire it up?
Some here implicitly speak as if they are familiar with LLMs, and so I assumed that the answer could be 1, 2 or possibly a handful of people to do the deed. But it seems I am very wrong.
Nonetheless by the time one has 700+ employees, surely someone in charge would have noticed that the room was crowded.
And why not the same at 500, or 200 or even 50 or fewer?
Perhaps the lack of oxygen has something to do with it? Might I suggest opening a window or two?
Re: Sam Altman returns as CEO, OpenAI has a new initial board
#750Earlier quoted context omitted.
First, I'm actually quite libertarian and capitalist -- although not necessarily so when it comes to companies working on powerful AI (or fighter jets for that matter). Here are some comments of mine from other discussions if you don't believe me: * Expressing skepticism about unions in Sweden -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38308184 * Arguing against central planning, with a link to a book detailing how soci…
When their charter says "primary fiduciary duty is to humanity" I don't think that means it intends to pay a financial dividend to each and every person on the planet. I think it means that if it is successful at AGI, that in itself will expand the economy enough to have the same effect. "Rising tide lifts all boats" type logic.