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Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

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Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#741

Post by leshow »

zer8k wrote: post #740
leshow wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost everything you have said here is untrue. Pharma companies still make profits in other countries, they just make much more profit in the US. Much of medical research is in fact funded by the government to begin with. By removing the for-profit system, you would actually be removing rampant rent-seeking on something that should be a human right. > Imagine if the price of insulin, almost completely funded by US c…

Sure bud. What is it about HN'ers talking with such confidence they legitimately have no idea what they're even talking about? I googled it for you, and gave you two sources are probably amicable towards - there are THOUSANDS more[0][1]. It's exhausting that everyone here talks like they are an expert at everything. I thought I left that when I came here from reddit. [0] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/do-other-…

The example you selected with insulin does not support your argument.

Of course, anyone can do a google search and find some opinion pieces confirming their world view, that doesn't make it true.

The post article in particular just looks at the total revenue and essentially says "look how big it is compared to other countries, we must be subsidizing them". But this just justifies the extreme profit-seeking already in the sector, it's not an argument that it's necessary for innovation.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#742

Post by samtho »

hibikir wrote: post #599
samtho wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot imagine a more sinister, callus, and destructive way to punch down on some of the most vulnerable people. 18 year olds did not elect any of the people making these laws, every adult before them parrots “go to college”, financial aid offices don’t care what people do as long as they pay tuition, etc. But grants, you say! We can avoid loans. Not so fast. If your parents made a certain amount, they are fully ex…

True, although I expect that the US healthcare system is more than competitive if we consider its bad outcomes and overall inefficiency per dollar spent. Systems where there is competition, but where efforts are made to make the service providers not really have big advantages for cutting costs, will get you bad outcomes. It's just unfortunate that avoiding needing healthcare, or going into many careers without payin…

I’m very pro-free market but I would be happy to see this structure replaced with almost anything else. We chose the worst possible combination/bastardization of systems: colleges are given a massive amount of funding by the federal government and the same government guarentees student loans via a debt shackle, lenders are incentivized to lend to students, colleges are incentivized charge exactly what the market will “tolerate” which is horribly skewed due to the abundance of money available to be loaned. This is a losing system for students, even for those who don’t take on debt are spending an absolute insane amount tuition, books, housing, and other living expenses.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#743

Post by rovolo »

prepend wrote: post #678
rovolo wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that Universities don't just teach. They also perform research, which requires staff. Yale is researched focused and has more grad students than undergrads. Grad students and research faculty require more administrative staff than undergrads. An increase in admin staff could be caused by a shift to more research rather than bloat in undergrad. For example, a teaching university like Central Washington Uni…

Research is done by professors and students, not admins. The overall average trend in the US is for administration costs to increase and instruction costs, relative to admin, to decrease [0]. Some universities will vary, but the trend is important to look at overall.

My point is that the article you linked to is not a data point supporting your assertion that tuition cost increases are caused by more admins.

A) Yale is a research-heavy university so the admin:student ratio shouldn't be expected to be constant. B) Yale's admin:faculty ratio decreased from 2003-2021, directly contradicting your claimed trend.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#744

Post by verteu »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #615
verteu wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect GP is referring to the fact that the US has the one of the worst health outcomes per dollar spent vs peer countries [1] [2]. If "better health outcomes per dollar" is not "what you want" -- how come? [1] https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2022/07/how-does-the-us-healthcare... [2] https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-economic-issues-watch/wh...

> If "better health outcomes per dollar" is not "what you want" -- how come? Because I don't confuse "individual" with "group". The fallacy here is to tally up every dollar spent on medical treatment in a given year, then saying "here we spent X on medical treatment, but it could only be 0.7X if the government were in charge". But you never asked me how much I spent on medical treatment. What if I spent 0? Well then,…

> And [health care prices] all spirals out of control.

But... they don't. Peer countries with gvt subsidized/socialized care spend less than the US (per procedure and in aggregate).

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#745

Post by Broken_Hippo »

kajaktum wrote: post #665
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well educated isn't so clearly defined: In general, though, it is having been exposed to a varying number of subjects, be able to read a varying amount of things, have enough general knowledge that they can understand the reason there are "chemicals" in food and the reasons not to mix some household chemicals together. In addition, the person has been able to dive into a particular subject more deeply than the other…

I am not sure if university is an effective place to do this. I think tricking the younger minds at primary/secondary school to be more curious and well-rounded person is much better. Once you get the ball rolling, they will hopefully keep being that way into their adulthood. For example, how do you teach a young adult to be kind when they aren't? Teaching them about kindness via multiple sessions of lectures ain't g…

University is a piece of it. A large piece.

No matter how curious you are, you tend to benefit from learning from others. There is more to university than learning from books. You wind up being around folks you wouldn't otherwise be with. For some folks, it is their first experience being without supervision. And stuff like that. It doesn't need to be university for all so long as there is some sort of schooling that meets these needs for folks. We can start doing adult-lite at 15/16 and have people move into dorms their last couple of years. Doesn't mean that a lot of folks wouldn't benefit from university or something akin to it: A chance to have an intensive course learning another language, for example, with the goal of fluency.

You can't force anyone into being kind, and some folks are simply going to be sour. We do start teaching folks as children, after all. Make peace with the fact that some individuals aren't going to be: That's OK so long most folks are and it shows in society and programs that help others.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#746

Post by dzonga »

Xeronate wrote: post #292
pixelatedindex wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably you have enough money now to switch to something that makes you happy? Personally, if you’re going to be miserable anyway (as most Americans are these days), it’s probably better to be miserable with money than without money, lol

I'm 29 and have 500k saved up (live in Santa Monica which is quite expensive), but yes I think I will quit my next stock vest which is Friday. And idk. My best friend from high school moved out here with me and he's a waiter making 40k a year and seems totally happy. Works like 30 hours a week, no mental stress, able to work out and work on himself. I think money is highly overrated.

how do you have that much saved up at 29 ? faang salary / vest schedules ?

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#747

Post by zen928 »

robomartin wrote: post #699
zen928 wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is insane. What are we doing? expecting academia to be a job training program, reprimanding higher level general eduction as "33%" waste, trying to address the symptom (high loans) instead of the disease (why are they high) and pretending that cutting required courseloads wouldn't also reciprocate to higher tuition costs like every single time financial aid services like FAFSA increase, repeatedly posting out-…

> the problem more and more seems to be that people like you have a voice in the world that someone might be fooled into believing is valid. Wow. It sounds like North Korea Would be fantastic for you. You never have to hear from anyone with any opinion outside the officially approved. You’d fit right in. Highly recommended.

i dunno, I think denigrating vulnerable citizens as a way to justify irrational reductions to your countries education system as a result of learned propoganda from a political party that values having power over it's citizens would make you infinitely closer to the average north korean sympathizer than I am

i also notice you skipped any prior points to give a vapid reply while also doing the same thing you accuse me of (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accusation_in_a_mirror), so I'll correct myself from cringe libertarian to cringe lite-republican and highlight that point here as a way to lightly confirm that you don't have anything of substance to contribute besides mindless outrage

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#748

Post by tekknik »

skrtskrt wrote: post #737
tekknik wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It might be relatively common for low income to get full rides or near full rides, but anyone in mid-income is getting saddled with tons of debt. Because the government has determined that you or your parents make enough to pay for school on your own should you prioritize it financially. The low income people could not. For reference, my families household income was near $25k/yr and I got the first two years cover…

Edit: nevermind. Saw the rest of your comments it's all bad faith BS about how the affordable education = government coercion. But also, somehow you went to school for $5 a year. No. For 95k a year for a four-person household you certainly could not afford to send two children to universities that were $50-70k/year - which was the price of standard state universities at the time. Not without going into significant de…

Ah no, I never said it was affordable, that’s putting words in my mouth and you’re now bowing out because you found out you weren’t poor. Education isn’t affordable but I still think people should pay their loans, especially if their parents made $95k/yr

Maybe start with what city you lived in yea?

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#749

Post by tekknik »

Auracle wrote: post #726
tekknik wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason student loans aren’t dischargeable in bankruptcy is because it’s basically literally impossible to collect on them, you can’t repo a college education You can revoke the degree. Given that most people out of school don’t remember most of school anyways this should be enough for most.

It’s not like employers would suddenly say, “oh, your degree was revoked? I guess that knowledge you acquired is gone and we can’t hire you.”

I mean some would. Usually the jobs where people care about having a degree would. Like research. The rest of us, sure. But then again, that means you waisted money.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#750

Post by tekknik »

runarberg wrote: post #735
tekknik wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then how do you decide who gets a bachelors, masters or PhD? What if I want to have a PhD in computer science but work a normal job? Will the gov pay for it or force me into research? What if I want to be an MD? Will the government pay for that MD while denying others that want a PhD? What happens when someone fails out of school? How do you avoid people using school to avoid the selective service?

It doesn’t work like that. Lots of countries have free education, some even pay students in higher educations stipends (and some make you pay it back if you drop out without a degree, for better or for worse). Students are free to pursue whichever degree they want, and leave academia for whichever job they can get whenever they want. Think about free education like you think about universal income, except free educat…

Yea I don’t want to pay taxes for someone pursuing something worthless. You missed the point.
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