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Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

cnbc.com

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Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#741

Post by brokenmachine »

Sparyjerry wrote: post #718
cardiffspaceman wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how calling it a Software Recall will soften the blow for the car's user when the user has to drive it to a place where a device can be plugged in to do the update. With a Recall in the normal sense, isn't there a record that the car has been updated? How is this done if the car is kept fully available to the user?

I had a similar recall with my washing machine. It was literally updated automatically before I even knew a recall existed.

Why the hell does your washing machine need internet access?

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#742

Post by brokenmachine »

InCityDreams wrote: post #479
paxys wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of "actual recalls" is you taking your car to the dealership and them plugging into the diagnostic port and running one line of code. So this one is the same, just that Tesla is able to do it over the air.

>just that Tesla is able to do it over the air. ...and that's one reason why I would never purchase a Tesla.

"Full self driving beta" is one of my reasons.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#743

Post by brokenmachine »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #707
orthecreedence wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're actually serious about this, we should get rid of roads altogether and replace them with rail tracks. That solves 95% of the automation problem anyway.

Not even rails, could be magnetic, and make cars like maglev trains. Wear and tear would be negligible too, since there's no friction.

That sounds economically realistic.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#744

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

panick21_ wrote: post #631
marricks wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something is changing and it’s very broken so people are paying attention to it. If people really wanted to fix transportation that’s great, high speed rail and public transportation reducing the number of cars on the road seem to be the best solution. But hey, Elon’s hyper loop was a publicity stunt to discourage investment in that. So I say, whether you want to shit on Tesla or public roads, shit on Elon.

> reducing the number of cars on the road seem to be the best solution. No actually its actually not. Less concession in a system that depends on concession for safety will lead to more accident not less. That is what was shown during Covid, less driving, but accidents per mile went up. So yes, of course public transport, bikes are great, but if you don't fix the underlying problem in the road system, you are gone ha…

accidents per mile driven isn't a good metric. If you half the number of miles driven (through public transit/walking/biking) and have 50% more accidents per mile driven then you've still saved a bunch of people's lives.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#745

Post by mike_d »

csours wrote: post #244
jlv2 wrote: post #154

There really needs to be a distinction between an actual recall (my Model S had one to change the latch on the frunk) and this type of "recall" that is nothing more than an OTA software update.

"Recall" means that the Manufacturer MUST follow rules related to record keeping and customer engagement. If you have a recall, please make sure you get it completed. It is someone's job to call and write to you until you do.

Finally the correct answer in a wave of "well ackusally" comments.

A recall means exactly what it means. The manufacturer is responsible for a fix. If for whatever reason they can't push an OTA update to your car, Tesla is still responsible for sending you a postcard in the mail and calling you every 6 months telling you to bring it in for service until they have reasonable evidence the car is no longer on the road.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#746

Post by mike_d »

dylan604 wrote: post #460
jlv2 wrote: post #154

There really needs to be a distinction between an actual recall (my Model S had one to change the latch on the frunk) and this type of "recall" that is nothing more than an OTA software update.

Was the recall a voluntary recall by the company or something the company was told to do by a regulator? To me, recall means much more than just having to have the company replace something. It means they have to do it at their expense. So in this case, it's not as bad for Tesla's bottom line if it is just an OTA update. A recall is something that the car industry is used to doing whenever they have to fix a mistake.…

Almost all car recalls are voluntary because once it becomes a mandatory recall the government can require them to provide a buyback option to the vehicle owner.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#747

Post by mike_d »

webinvest wrote: post #733
Beaver117 wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're living in a fantasy. Name one country that has done that.

Spain, specifically Barcelona. An absolute joy to ride, I may add.

I have been to Barcelona and don't once recall seeing someone who owned a train. Having public transit is vastly different than a shared rail system.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#748

Post by brokenmachine »

ggreer wrote: post #580
Veserv wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It uses maps for that. I have a winding road near me with a speed limit of 35 mph, but 15 mph on certain curves as indicated by a speed limit sign. It ignores those speed limit signs and will attempt to make the turns at 35 mph resulting in it wildly swerving into the other lane and around a blind turn with maybe 30 feet of visibility. It has also attempted to do it so poorly that it would have driven across the lane…

I'm talking about standard speed limit signs. You're talking about the signs that warn about sharp turns and advise maximum speeds. Yes it would be good if the software understood those signs, but that's a different issue. Teslas definitely read speed limit signs. I've had mine correctly detect and follow speed limits in areas without connectivity or map data. It also follows speed limits on private drives (if there…

>I'm talking about standard speed limit signs. You're talking about the signs that warn about sharp turns and advise maximum speeds.

Cognitive dissonance at it's finest.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#749

Post by John23832 »

stefan_ wrote: post #450
_visgean wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rules engine with an RGB camera I dont think its true? They use convolutional networks for image recognition and those things can certainly halucinate - e.g. detecting things that are not there.

I guess what the grandparent means is that there is some good old "discrete logic" on top of the various sensor inputs that ultimately turns things like a detected red light into the car stopping. But of course, as you say, that system does not consume actual raw (camera) sensor data, instead there are lots of intermediate networks that turn the camera images (and other sensors) into red lights, lane curvatures, obje…

You were correct in the first half. My ultimate point was that hallucinations in this sense are just computational anomalies. There is no human "purpose" to them as the post that I was responding to was trying to infer.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#750

Post by nerdix »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #190
buildbot wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It involves a safety system! That needs to be tracked publicly and updated! Nothing more than an OTA - does not mean much when everything is fly by wire and a bug could mean your car does not stop accelerating or something.

Recall implies something being returned. This should be called a mandatory software patch, or something like that. The problem is Tesla owners repeatedly see "recall" to mean "software update", so this might lead to a lot of confusion if a physical recall is actually required in the future.

Samsung just recently had a recall on some recent model top loading washing machines due to fire hazard. The fix? A software update.

https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2023/Samsung-Recalls-Top-Load-W...

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