Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes • Hacker News Board

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#741

Post by shawn-butler » Tue, Jan 24, 2023, 10:14 AM UTC

jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

The issue is that I have to trust the proprietor. In my locale it has become common for restaurants to add ‘health & wellness’ surcharges which began as charity/Covid response and of course never went away.

It is almost never the case that the restaurant provides any of this to their employees and there is no transparency involved.

I honestly see it as a scam to charge higher prices without itemizing properly on the menu.

Even if you highlight the wage disparity in signage, I would have no way of knowing whether the information is accurate or just another piece of propaganda.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#742

Post by peoplefromibiza » Tue, Jan 24, 2023, 10:17 AM UTC

godelski wrote: post #30

One thing I've never understood is the argument for tipping. It has always been "because servers are being paid less than minimum wage." Which the issue with that is that that varies state by state. Most west coast states do not have a separate tipped wage[0]. So the question is, why do we tip at all on the west coast[1]? Worse, it seems to be expanding and increasing in size[2] The followup argument is often "well t…

> One thing I've never understood is the argument for tipping

European here, from Italy, we don't tip much and it's not mandatory.

We do at dinner if it has been a long dinner usually as a way to show appreciation, but the tip is usually a modest amount (in the 5-10 euros ballpark for a table)

The argument for tipping here is that it is tax free money.

That's why here restaurants love American tourists and their very generous tips.

That's all there is to it.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#743

Post by KyeRussell » Tue, Jan 24, 2023, 10:18 AM UTC

Larrikin wrote: post #375

expensive_news wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat of a meta-comment but I’m shocked at how many people are complaining about you not taking cash. Has anyone ever walked out of your coffee shop because they only had cash on them? I can’t remember the last time I paid or even saw someone pay cash for anything.

Cities are making it illegal, as they should. It's not always meant in bad faith, but it's also a form of gentrification that hurts the poor and unbanked by removing yet another service from them. https://www.nssh.com/2020/04/philadelphias-ban-on-cashless-s... I personally never use anything but cards since I have many of the high reward credit cards. But I've also had family members with tax liens or other problems…

Let’s not for a split second pretend that many if any of the people complaining in this thread are doing so for this reason. At best their reasoning is verging on a conspiracy theory, at worst it’s just a typical old American man aversion to not using cash.

I agree with you that businesses should accept cash for the reason that you’ve noted. The underlying problem is fuelled by the almost unique dysfunction of American bureaucracies. This is in cases where the systems aren’t maliciously designed to lock people out.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#744

Post by Yizahi » Tue, Jan 24, 2023, 10:19 AM UTC

parallel wrote: post #398

ddyevf635372 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't any tip in New Zealand and Australia. Everybody get proper salary. The service is always exceptional. How is that possible?

People do tip in Australia, it's just not expected. Tipping a genuine act of generosity to reciprocate exceptional service. The correlation between service quality and tipping is an interesting one, why does anyone do a good job in any role without some kind of incremental reward for effort. Do office workers always revert to 'just enough to not get fired' or are they playing a longer game for promotions and bonuses?

What is this "exceptional service" people are talking about? Take the order without forgetting stuff and then bring dishes from the kitchen? Isn't that just a normal baseline for this profession? Or does it mean not spitting in the food (I'm joking)? I sometimes leave tips, but not once have I understood why, because there is no such thing as "exceptional" in the waiting service imho. I only do it due to the social pressure, like a monkey in the story about water hose and a ladder.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#745

Post by spratzt » Tue, Jan 24, 2023, 10:22 AM UTC

This reminds me of the brochure I once received from a fishing camp.

In the pricing section of the brochure, there was an item described, completely un-ironically, as “compulsory gratuities”.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#746

Post by car » Tue, Jan 24, 2023, 10:22 AM UTC

JimtheCoder wrote: post #160

Insanity wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European living in Canada, the tipping culture took some time to get used to. It's such a stupid/bad system.

Am Canadian, can confirm... I do wish there was a way to tip the drivers who deliver my Amazon Prime stuff, though. I don't want to tip someone who presses a few buttons on a screen to take my food order, that they usually mess up and sometimes add on a free side of bad attitude. I would like an easy way to tip the guy who is trudging through the snow to deliver my 2KG jar of peanut butter at 9:30pm in January. I lik…

At least in the US, that would be drivr.

https://drivr.life

https://techcrunch.com/2022/10/17/drivr-tips-last-mile-deliv...

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#747

Post by larrysalibra » Tue, Jan 24, 2023, 10:23 AM UTC

qqtt wrote: post #573

4gotunameagain wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how one person opened a coffee shop which basically operates like every single coffee shop in the world apart from the US , and you guys need a detailed write up, charts, flow charts, tips for the secret sauce :)

The point is, that isn't how coffee shops typically operate in the United States, which is what makes it interesting. Operating a coffee shop without tips has special and unique considerations in the United States - chiefly, how to retain talent and employees when conventional wisdom would say it is better paying to get a job at a traditional tip-based coffee shop, which again, are plentiful in the United States. I w…

Former American here...grew up in Ohio but haven't lived in the country for a while (2007).

When did coffee shops in the US start asking for tips? It must be a relatively new thing. Never saw tips asked for at coffee shops when visiting until the ipad checkout thing (square?) appeared. Is it a nationwide thing now or just confined to certain regions (coastal metro areas?)?

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#748

Post by xs83 » Tue, Jan 24, 2023, 10:24 AM UTC

It's starting to crop up here in Australia too - thankfully Aussies are pretty stoic about looking them in the eyes and clicking "No Tip".

To be clear - I will tip for exceptional service or if we have been a particularly difficult table (dietary requirements, number of people etc), but its an exception rather than the rule and its rarely more than 10%.

However often in these cases a surcharge is already added or the meal has been altered in such a way as to negate these issues (Set menu only for tables of 5 or more is common).

Asking me to tip for basic service is going to be refused.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#749

Post by mcv » Tue, Jan 24, 2023, 10:25 AM UTC

Freak_NL wrote: post #642

4gotunameagain wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how one person opened a coffee shop which basically operates like every single coffee shop in the world apart from the US , and you guys need a detailed write up, charts, flow charts, tips for the secret sauce :)

> like every single coffee shop in the world apart from the US I very much appreciate being able to amble into a coffee shop, order a coffee from a human being (perhaps doing my best in a foreign language I'm not all that proficient in), and paying cash should I so desire. Like you can in most coffee shops around the world.

Order coffee in a coffee shop? That's not what ours are for. (Dutch here.)

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#750

Post by michael9k » Tue, Jan 24, 2023, 10:27 AM UTC

“Tipping is about making sure the people who are performing that service for you are getting paid what they’re owed” - This sums up the entire problem with tipping. It's just simply wrong / false.

Actually tipping is making sure that the owner of a café can get away with paying a too low salary to the employee.

So best advice: don't tip! You are keeping alive a system where it is up to you, the customer, to (maybe) ensure the employee is making a decent amount of money. That is flipping the issue of money on the head. This should be a matter between the employee and the business, using a contract, you know, like every other normal business relationship works!