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The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

community.frame.work

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Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#741

Post by fui »

emiller88 wrote: post #387
doyougnu wrote: post #340

I recently bought a framework laptop for a daily driver when I'm not on my desktop. For context I was running NixOS on an old 2014 macbook air, and I work on the glasgow haskell compiler in my day job so I do a lot of CPU heavy tasks. I've got to say, as long as these things are being produced I'll never go back. They are just too good and I cannot recommend them highly enough. One of the things that didn't occur to…

FYI, we've added support for the framework to nixos-hardware. I appreciate any feedback or improvements anyone has! https://github.com/NixOS/nixos-hardware/blob/master/framewor...

Thank you for doing this! I've been following different posts on NixOS and how different folks have managed to get things working on NixOS.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#742

Post by fui »

doyougnu wrote: post #340

I recently bought a framework laptop for a daily driver when I'm not on my desktop. For context I was running NixOS on an old 2014 macbook air, and I work on the glasgow haskell compiler in my day job so I do a lot of CPU heavy tasks. I've got to say, as long as these things are being produced I'll never go back. They are just too good and I cannot recommend them highly enough. One of the things that didn't occur to…

Apologies, I am new to HN, could you please share a write-up of your experience and process in case you haven't already? I'm moving from an MacBook Pro to a Framework and before the MBP, I used Slackware as my daily driver. Would appreciate any tips on using NixOS as a daily driver.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#743

Post by rekoil »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #713
rekoil wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I'll take anything that's more square than 16:9 personally. 16:9 is great if I wanna watch movies all day, unfortunately for the apparently unaware laptop industry, I need to also work a little bit sometimes. Thankfully Apple never jumped on the stupid 16:9 bandwagon with their laptops. Now if only some monitor manufacturer would wake up and start making 27"+, 16:10, 4K+ monitors with 120hz+ refresh rate then I'l…

> Apple never jumped on the stupid 16:9 bandwagon with their laptops This is not entirely true :) The MacBook Air 11" was 16:9.

Fair enough, and that may not be the only machine for all I know, but what I meant was that in general Apple tends to go for 16:10 which I love.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#744

Post by smeej »

nrp wrote: post #590
smeej wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu 22.04 fixed none of the problems I've had since 21.04. Not a single one is better in any respect. Even "deep" suspend saps 30%+ of battery overnight. And it won't wake right. If this is the best testing you've done, people just shouldn't buy this thing.

I replied to one of your other comments, but you should follow the latest version of the Ubuntu 22.04 guide, setting nvme.noacpi=1, with which we see around 0.8%/hour in s0ix: https://guides.frame.work/c/Framework_Laptop#Section_How-to

I tested this yesterday.

After being off for 24 hours, it dropped from 100% to 47%.

That's more than 2% per hour, and still unacceptable for a device that's supposed to be sleeping.

It doesn't work.

I have 3 other machines running the same version of Ubuntu. Not one of them would have lost more than 7% in the same amount of time.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#745

Post by rhn_mk1 »

csdvrx wrote: post #739
rhn_mk1 wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fully self-inflicted, by a lack of typing skills compounded by refusing to configure the keymap or the sysreq bitmask So, git gud? Sorry, I'm not buying it. People have different motor skills, you know. You can't always make your body physically perfect. Changing the mapping might work (although I doubt it, it's a deep kernel mechanism that probably avoids such complexity), but requires having the knowledge that it…

> So, git gud? If if's bothering you as much as you said, YES, stop complaining, and start acting on your complaints! I've already given you all the pointers. Now I'll help you more if you need. > Sorry, I'm not buying it. Neither am I. I get the feeling you want to complain more than you want to actually solve your problem. But as this is HN, I'm giving your comment the most positive interpretation possible. > Peopl…

> start acting on your complaints!

I just did: I raised an objection to a bad idea for anyone who might be misled by it. Also I won't buy a computer with this flaw.

> So first, did you try it? If not, why?

I did not, because I did not know how. I also don't want to know how to alter my computer to achieve a basic minimum of functionality, because a minimum is what is assumed. Either the OS or the hardware should have sane defaults.

> Different people want different things.

I suggest you remap your keys (when you use Linux) to fit your special need then ;)

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#746

Post by csdvrx »

rhn_mk1 wrote: post #745
csdvrx wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, git gud? If if's bothering you as much as you said, YES, stop complaining, and start acting on your complaints! I've already given you all the pointers. Now I'll help you more if you need. > Sorry, I'm not buying it. Neither am I. I get the feeling you want to complain more than you want to actually solve your problem. But as this is HN, I'm giving your comment the most positive interpretation possible. > Peopl…

> start acting on your complaints! I just did: I raised an objection to a bad idea for anyone who might be misled by it. Also I won't buy a computer with this flaw. > So first, did you try it? If not, why? I did not, because I did not know how. I also don't want to know how to alter my computer to achieve a basic minimum of functionality, because a minimum is what is assumed. Either the OS or the hardware should have…

>> So first, did you try it? If not, why?

>I did not, because I did not know how.

Now you do

> I suggest you remap your keys (when you use Linux) to fit your special need then ;)

When there is no physical key, like to the left and right of the up arrow where pagedown and pageup would be, I can't invent them out of thin air.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#747

Post by rhn_mk1 »

csdvrx wrote: post #746
rhn_mk1 wrote: post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> start acting on your complaints! I just did: I raised an objection to a bad idea for anyone who might be misled by it. Also I won't buy a computer with this flaw. > So first, did you try it? If not, why? I did not, because I did not know how. I also don't want to know how to alter my computer to achieve a basic minimum of functionality, because a minimum is what is assumed. Either the OS or the hardware should have…

>> So first, did you try it? If not, why? >I did not, because I did not know how. Now you do > I suggest you remap your keys (when you use Linux) to fit your special need then ;) When there is no physical key, like to the left and right of the up arrow where pagedown and pageup would be, I can't invent them out of thin air.

There's typically the "emulate a right click" button or a Windows button in between AltGr and Ctrl. Those don't have the faults of a SysRq, so they seem like good candidates for a new hypothetical keyboard.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#748

Post by archon810 »

pmlnr wrote: post #486

Please, please, please make s keyboard option that has full size arrow keys, dedicated pgup, pgdown, del, ins, home, end. The current laptop keyboards, apart from thinkpads, are a joke for those who want to work on them, the framework, sadly, is included. I'd also love a trackpoint with 3 dedicated buttons but I'll keep dreaming.

100% this and given the target demographic, I can't believe I had to scroll so much until I found the keyboard called out.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#749

Post by pedro2 »

csdvrx wrote: post #363
pedro2 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression it was largely a BIOS option. Basically if S0idle is advertised as supported, S3 isn't. On recent BIOS on Thinkpads this tends to be an option which can be toggled.

> On recent BIOS on Thinkpads this tends to be an option which can be toggled. Just because the BIOS says so doesn't mean it will work. On some old Dells, the S0 implementation in the BIOS was just so broken it straight couldn't work, even in Windows. What saved the game was Microsoft carefully considering such scenarios and checking the battery budget: if S0 was draining the battery too fast for the computer to awak…

What do you mean doesn't support? Source?

PS: works on an 11th gen i5

EDIT: according to [1] S3 is supported on 12th. BIOS just hides it exists (not written in linked the article)

[1] https://edc.intel.com/content/www/us/en/design/ipla/software...

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#750

Post by pjlegato »

nrp wrote: post #617
pjlegato wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why most people just buy a MacBook: it should not be necessary for the user to read, do, or configure _anything_ to make suspend mode work properly and not drain 30% of your battery overnight.

I understand the sentiment, and for users who don’t want to do any configuration, we do have systems preloaded with Windows 11 that work out of the box with everything you’d expect a laptop to do. WSL has even gotten good enough to be a reasonable substitute for many people. For folks who do want Linux, in practice we have not seen following the steps in the setup guides be a constraint for usability.

This is because the people who want a Unix-like operating system that doesn't require manual following of guides after purchase to get basic features working all self-select out of your user pool and go buy a MacBook.
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