Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation • Hacker News Board

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#741

Post by colejohnson66 » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:54 PM UTC

Zircom wrote: post #720

rspeele wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest gun manufacturer you can buy stock in is Ruger (RGR) with a market cap of 1.17B. Add Smith & Wesson and you're at 2B. Throw in Vista Outdoors which owns many of the top US ammo brands (plus some minor firearm and accessory brands) and you can get the total up to 4.3B. I'll multiply that by 10 to guesstimate privately held companies, local gun stores, and the rest of the long tail. So let's say we're at $4…

I remember reading an article on how relatively cheap it is to "buy" politicians, on the order of just a hundred thousand dollars of donations in some cases, for favorable votes on relevant bills and whatnot. I would assume if normal,everyday citizens started banding together to buy votes the corporations would up the ante and price us out pretty quickly, but as things stand right now there's no point without competi…

It "costs" that much because that's just the monetary value. The value of the connections required to get that dinner is where the real cost is.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#742

Post by sigmaprimus » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:58 PM UTC

NoGravitas wrote: post #723

sigmaprimus wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'll simply quote Norman Mailer here: "I don’t care if people call me a radical, a rebel, a red, a revolutionary, an outsider, an outlaw, a Bolshevik, an anarchist, a nihilist, or even a left conservative, but please don’t ever call me a liberal."

[flagged]

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#743

Post by tracedddd » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 7:00 PM UTC

ModernMech wrote: post #641

zucker42 wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the conditions are close to a large scale revolution in the U.S., especially if you mean a violent revolution. First, there is not a high level of discord in society. Upheavals in the 70s were much more significant than those now. Second, most people blame one or the other political party for our problems, rather than the established order generally, making it more likely people will fight within the bo…

> making it more likely people will fight within the bounds of the existing political system. You are aware there was a violent disruption to the peaceful transfer of power last year, right? Since then, predicated on lies, partisans have changed the system to give political parties full control of election results; and the January 6th Committee has essentially uncovered and extensive coup plot that spans the White Ho…

No offense but it sounds like you need to take a media break and get some air. Go camping.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#744

Post by colejohnson66 » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 7:01 PM UTC

klyrs wrote: post #710

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theoretically, could Apple buy S&W and…just shut it down? Would the government allow it? Curious…

I imagine that if they bought them all at the same time, it would be seen as anticompetitive. But if they bought them serially, and shut each down before acquiring the next, would that skirt the law? Curious indeed.

From my non-lawyer understanding: the Sherman Antitrust Act and any further bills/amendments aren't exactly explicit on what it means to be "anticompetitive" because it depends on the circumstances, and the writers wanted to allow the definition to adapt to changing circumstances. Regardless of if they buy them all at once, or buy and shutting them down serially, it's still arguably "anticompetitive". It's ultimately up to the courts to decide (if the FTC presses charges).

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#745

Post by maerF0x0 » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 7:05 PM UTC

pydry wrote: post #511

AlexandrB wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why minimum wage isn't tied to the CPI by default. I supposed there's a risk of it creating a positive feedback loop, but only a small portion of the workforce is paid at minimum wage. It seems capricious for minimum wage to only be increased when the legislative branch decides it's popular enough to fight for.

Because both parties are owned by oligarchs who would lose money if that happened. Minimum wage hikes chew through profits and profits are pretty much the #1 legislative priority because that's the primary concern of those doing the campaign financing. Same reason gun control wont happen no matter how many people get killed - ultimately its because gun manufacturers would lose money. American politics is the art of t…

> gun control

We must also keep in mind that the most likely person to be killed with a firearm is the person firing it-- ie suicide. Furthermore we have to question what percentage of the ~37% of gun deaths as murders would be curbed by gun controls, particularly what percent of those murders will happen via an illegal firearm or just some different weapon (are we going to have knife control, poison control, strangle control...)

IMO America has a (largely male) mental health issue more than a murder/firearm issue, I suggest we treat the root not the symptom. How? apropos to the thread one potential solution is we might give people some economic hope via a good working wage. (Perhaps it's not the right solution, but still emphasize the roots not the symptoms)

some sources for food for thought:

[1]: https://bigthink.com/the-present/switzerland-high-gun-owners... Switzerland has lots of guns but few mass shootings

[2]: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/aug/21/jason-miya...

[2]:

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#746

Post by maerF0x0 » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 7:06 PM UTC

csomar wrote: post #674

pydry wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because both parties are owned by oligarchs who would lose money if that happened. Minimum wage hikes chew through profits and profits are pretty much the #1 legislative priority because that's the primary concern of those doing the campaign financing. Same reason gun control wont happen no matter how many people get killed - ultimately its because gun manufacturers would lose money. American politics is the art of t…

> Same reason gun control wont happen no matter how many people get killed - ultimately its because gun manufacturers would lose money. This is ... derailing. If Americans didn't love guns, they wouldn't go and buy guns. There is close to 400 million unregistered firearm in the USA. I don't think it's only Republican's. The companies who make guns will try to protect their business but at this point they are just sec…

> A person with a gun is not necessarily dangerous. An idiot with a gun is. An idiot without is still as dangerous.

just adding some facts here -- 1.2% of gun deaths were accidents https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/aug/21/jason-miya...

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#747

Post by Supermancho » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 7:07 PM UTC

tempestn wrote: post #57

Supermancho wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that math work? > If worker pay never kept up with inflation, the country would be among the world’s poorest. That is flat wrong. Even if you were still making 23$ an hour as you did in the 70's: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/04/50-years-of-us-wages-... https://www.factcheck.org/2019/06/are-wages-rising-or-flat/ ...you'd still be among the top 20% of earners across the earth. Let's take another step do…

"Never" doesn't only refer to the period from the 1970s to now. You'd be making a lot less than $23 per hour if wage growth never kept up with inflation.

I will concede that's true.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#748

Post by abeppu » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 7:12 PM UTC

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #563

abeppu wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A number of responses to this are arguing over whether real wages were really flat since the 1970s or how one would judge given the differences in the things we spend money on (larger houses, new tech, etc). But for any choice of how to calculate inflation which makes worker's wages go up over time, doesn't that imply that the total growth since the 1970s is also larger, and the absolute value captured by the capital…

I'm having trouble parsing your last sentence, 'an opportunity to argue for'? I suspect the rich often got that way by being able to capitalise on crises, but I'm not sure how that relates to arguing for such opportunity. It might be relevant that Picketty also points out how severe crises are about the only times in recent history that wealth inequality decreased. I generally like Picketty's analysis, but I wonder w…

Perhaps I phrased that poorly. Every crisis is used to lobby (argue) for policies which further enrich the rich.

So much of the money that was spent during the covid response was shoveled at businesses and capital owners.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#749

Post by newfriend » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 7:15 PM UTC

tsimionescu wrote: post #378

kukallan wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for the whole of Europe and I might be a sheep - but at least in Scandinavia, these far right parties are more of a symptom of the mainstream parties refusal to talk about problems related to immigration combined with US cultural influence. Sweden is no.1 in Europe when it comes to gun violence right now and only last year non-right political parties started discussing current crime waves link to integr…

Hard on crime and hard on immigration IS the far right. Sure, if the old parties had veered far-right, new far-right parties wouldn't have shown up. The problem are not the parties, the problem are the policies. Kicking immigrants out or licking them up will not improve the life of the local lower class, despite all the promises. It may improve the life of the rich, who won't have to fear bring mugged. But the reason…

Ceasing the funnel of endless low-skill, wage-depressing job competitors absolutely would improve the life of the lower class. They also have to deal with increased crime, it's not a uniquely "rich" problem. These parties are growing in popularity because it's a reaction to a real problem that locals are witnessing as their communities are changed for the worse.

Back in the 80s/90s, Sweden was known for bikini teams and ABBA. Now it's known for rape gangs. Sad!

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#750

Post by WalterBright » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 7:15 PM UTC

redisman wrote: post #651

anshumankmr wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An example of this is the change to automatic transmission from manual has increased costs. People could have voted with their dollars but manual is (unfortunately) on its way out in America. In a way, they have as it seems vast majority of people buying new cars want automatic but the segment who prefer manual were unable to convince others to buy manual. This also came with a caveat as automatic is more expensive t…

I mean it’s just not something most people find appealing. Shifting gears. I’d rather have the car handle that. What is the pro of manual transmission? I used to have those cars in the EU and thought it was just an annoying extra thing I have to pay attention to when driving.

> What is the pro of manual transmission?

1. enjoyment

2. keeps you awake

3. more reliable

4. more control in stuck or slippery conditions

5. thieves don't know how to drive them

6. the kids are terrified of it and won't ask to borrow it

7. can push start the car

8. can restart the car while moving if the engine stalls

9. can coast

10. can drop the clutch and get off the line faster when drag racing against some teen at the traffic light

11. get to enjoy double clutching and mastering heel-toeing and pretending you're an F1 driver

12. The Cat cannot reach the clutch pedal, frustrating its plans for putting me in the trunk and depositing me in the Kat Fud Factory

13. you can nurse the car home and to the shop with a broken gearbox. With an automatic, it's a tow truck every time

14. the sheer joy of a winding mountain road, a powerful V8, picking the gear for the next turn, managing the traction and engine speed, etc.