America has a drinking problem • Hacker News Board

Re: America has a drinking problem

#741

Post by quotemstr » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 1:08 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #734

quotemstr wrote: post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For a simple reason - because we know, empirically, through decades of studies(some of which were done by the very US of A!), that it produces better results for the entire society Is that why America's per capita GDP is higher than that of the EU? Why the US, not the EU, is the world's center of innovation and the strongest magnet for talent? I don't think that trying to make everyone the same is good for society…

>>Is that why America's per capita GDP is higher than that of the EU? No, but it's exactly why US is far behind EU in healthcare, education, equality, social mobility and a number of other social metrics that matter to you know - normal people on the street, not traders on wall street. GDP doesn't tell the whole story. >>Why the US, not the EU, is the world's center of innovation and the strongest magnet for talent B…

In America, everyone has the same chance already, at least to a close approximation. It's just not logically valid to look at unequal outcomes and conclude that not everyone had the same chance, but that's what half this thread is doing. Whatever the US is doing, it works for producing prosperity and innovation. Whatever the EU is doing doesn't work to produce that. Sure, people there are comfortable, but should comfort alone be the goal of human society? I don't think so.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#742

Post by gambiting » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 1:09 PM UTC

hallway_monitor wrote: post #729

gambiting wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Why should everyone be in the same position? They didn't put in the same effort. For a simple reason - because we know, empirically, through decades of studies(some of which were done by the very US of A!), that it produces better results for the entire society. I've learnt long ago that it doesn't matter how I feel about benefits system personally - yeah I hate that some people get money for doing nothing. But it'…

I was pretty poor. My mom worked part-time and call centers and did medical studies to earn extra money while my dad worked full-time. I made some bad choices, but then got a 2-year degree at a community college and yes, I did use some grants which I'm very thankful for. Not to be pedantic but there's really no such thing as free is there? Someone is paying for that college. Personally I don't want to subsidize these…

>>Not to be pedantic but there's really no such thing as free is there? Someone is paying for that college.

That is pedantic - literally no one with an ounce of intelligence would think that money for those services comes from the moon. Of course it comes from out taxes. I'm happy to pay my taxes to make sure everyone has the same opportunities.

>>Personally I don't want to subsidize these quote unquote elite universities but if people choose to use their money to go there that's great.

That's an incredibly individualistic approach that I don't agree with.

>>I once heard that freedom is the ability to choose wrongly but at the core it's really freedom to choose. If everything is the same then there's really no choice.

But that's exactly what other countries do! I said this in another comment - want to be a doctor? Go ahead, no debt. Want to be a lawyer? No debt. But also want to be a map historian? No debt. Art PhD? No debt. Marketing and Business studies? No debt.

That's exactly what freedom is. You are free to chose what you want to learn. If you choose poorly and there is no job waiting for you on the other end, well you just wasted 3 years of your life. But we as a society made it possible for you to take that leap and have a choice.

How is that "everything is the same"???

Re: America has a drinking problem

#743

Post by dougmwne » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 1:09 PM UTC

Wxc2jjJmST9XWWL wrote: post #636

Whenever I explain the "USA" to (Eastern) Europeans, I always simply state the notion: "diverse country of the extremes". Yes, widespread obesity, but health obsessions also run deep in that country, gym memberships, elite universities with sports programs full of money. How many weird diet fads start basically in the US? Self-help books, alternative gurus, etc. Bad education? Yes, pretty much. But also some of the b…

I think a lot of this is just because the USA is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to the USA:)

Plus, this is a country made up of a little piece of every other country in the world. "American identity" is an ex post facto rationalization. Not to mention that politically we often operate like 50 small-to-medium sized countries. And there's less of a push to homogenize the country since one of our political parties fights against federalization.

All that adds up to a country with a whole lot of variation. Describing what Americans are like is pretty useless. We're like everything.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#744

Post by yason » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 1:24 PM UTC

SilverRed wrote: post #504

Sophistifunk wrote: post #423

People have the cause and effect backwards in my opinion. You know why "binge drinking" isn't a problem in Germany, except for when the Australians turn up for Oktoberfest? It's because you can just buy a beer on the side of the road with your currywurst, and drink it without being hassled. If you act up, you get arrested for acting up. Try openly having a few beers in the park in Australia or the US, you'll be run o…

The public drinking laws are not because the government thinks the average person can't be trusted. It's because the homeless population has a large drinking problem and it often results in people getting assaulted on the street. These laws let the police do something about this before it results in harm.

often results in people getting assaulted on the street. These laws let the police do something about this

Aren't there laws against assaulting people on the street that the police could use, then?

Re: America has a drinking problem

#745

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 1:24 PM UTC

dougmwne wrote: post #743

Wxc2jjJmST9XWWL wrote: post #636

Whenever I explain the "USA" to (Eastern) Europeans, I always simply state the notion: "diverse country of the extremes". Yes, widespread obesity, but health obsessions also run deep in that country, gym memberships, elite universities with sports programs full of money. How many weird diet fads start basically in the US? Self-help books, alternative gurus, etc. Bad education? Yes, pretty much. But also some of the b…

I think a lot of this is just because the USA is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to the USA:) Plus, this is a country made up of a little piece of every other country in the world. "American identity" is an ex post facto rationalization. Not to mention that politically we often oper…

[deleted]

Re: America has a drinking problem

#746

Post by offa » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 1:25 PM UTC

mantas wrote: post #701

snovv_crash wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I visited a castle in Switzerland (Chateau de Chillon) and they had a presentation on medieval eating and drinking habits. Apparently it was absolutely normal for everyone who could afford it to be drunk all of the time, from seamstresses to soldiers. I don't think our modern efficiency-conscious society can really understand what it was like back then.

Two key bits - how drunk and who could afford it. Safe drinking water was a pain in the ass. So mild alcoholic drinks was the norm. That that'd give you a little buzz at best. Very few people could have afforded to be truly shitfaced 24/7.

From what I understand, the "safe drinking water was a pain in the ass" thing is largely a myth. Some good information available in this r/AskHistorians Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1svj1q/how_d...

Re: America has a drinking problem

#747

Post by runarberg » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 1:26 PM UTC

quotemstr wrote: post #709

capableweb wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of the things you've listed sounds like diversity, it sounds like inequality. Why is half the country without proper education while the other ones are in the best research institutions in the world? And what does the people are those institutions spend their time on, if it's not helping the other half reaching the same position as themselves? The social experiment seems to be about how extreme you can really…

Why do you suppose that under conditions of perfect fairness we would see perfect equality? That's just not the case. Human talent is not sprinkled in the proportion in each person. You can achieve equality only through Harrison Bergeron measures. I'd rather have freedom.

You are more right about your former point then you realize. Even in a perfectly fair economy where all the players are equally skilled, statistically the wealth will gather in fewer and fewer hands after each fair and equal transaction.

I disagree with your conclusion though “choose freedom”. In an unequal society, those that have will have control over those that have not. Meaning the freedom you speak of is only available to those that are lucky in their earlier transaction (or more realistically those that inherit the most).

Re: America has a drinking problem

#748

Post by JohnWhigham » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 1:27 PM UTC

kvgr wrote: post #647

SilverRed wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public drinking laws are not because the government thinks the average person can't be trusted. It's because the homeless population has a large drinking problem and it often results in people getting assaulted on the street. These laws let the police do something about this before it results in harm.

Does the brown paper bag magically fixes this situation?

No. The police aren't stupid, they know what you're doing. And are you really going to spend a Wednesday afternoon going to court arguing with a court official about a $60 ticket?

Re: America has a drinking problem

#749

Post by lotsofpulp » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 1:29 PM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #596

lotsofpulp wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solid fruit is not the problem, juice is. You wouldn't eat 10 oranges at once, but you can drink 10 oranges worth of sugar in a glass of orange juice.

Would you consider a fruit smoothy a problem if it has no added sugars?

Total sugars is the relevant metric, although added sugar serves as a good proxy if you’re comparing nutritional labels.

A fruit smoothie that keeps all the fiber and hence is more filling and hence causes you to eat less sugar by way of eating less fruit overall is fine. A smoothie where you filter out the fiber or otherwise eat excess amounts of sugar would not be.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#750

Post by boringg » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 1:35 PM UTC

makeitdouble wrote: post #693

graphtrader wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are just repeating things you have read about. People walking out of their jobs because wages are so low is obvious bullshit. The people I know in this situation are the hardest working people I have ever met and it is insulting to them to say such things.

I have no idea about your walk of life, but people leaving low paying jobs doesn’t feel irrational or lazy, or bullshitty in general. Why shouldn’t they ?

The reason it sounds bulshitty is that in order to leave a low paying job in which you are truly on the cusp you have to have another job lined up. There isn't a lot of savings to manage time to find another job if you just get up and go. If they didn't have another job lined up chances are they wouldn't walk out on the job. Not agreeing or disagreeing just adding some perspective on why it sounds a bit odd of a statement.