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Poor in Tech

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Re: Poor in Tech

#741

Post by moonchild »

wlesieutre wrote: post #513
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A coke is a coke and no amount of money can get you a better coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking. Not strictly accurate, as you can get bottled coke made with cane sugar instead of HFCS for a bit more and it is, in fact, better.

Back in 1975 that wasn't the case. But I guess it's another tiny symbol of increasing American inequality since then, we have special Coke for rich people now. Still true for goldfish as far as I know.

Or, rather, we have crappy coke for poor people.

Re: Poor in Tech

#742

Post by dack »

giantg2 wrote: post #723
Twixes wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, so really the question is, why are you still at that company and not looking around to switch to a better one?

I have a family to support and have no options (the tech was FileNet and later Neoxam, and the wife refuses to relocate).

Hey, sorry to hear about your predicament.

A lot of companies hire remotely these days, or are totally remote (Gitlab comes to mind).

Two things I would recommend if you are open to advice:

1. Consider the possibility that you have some skills to grow to achieve more senior levels. Confidence helps, but it's not enough on it's own.

2. Interview at other companies that don't require you to relocate to see what you're worth - switching jobs is (sadly) one of the easiest ways to get promoted or a pay raise.

Good luck!

Re: Poor in Tech

#743

Post by TulliusCicero »

grayclhn wrote: post #222
TulliusCicero wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've heard stories that at Google, the non-engineering workers at campus may not socialize with engineers at all. I worked at HQ as an engineer, and didn't notice any such thing. Most of the time I probably didn't say hi to cleaning staff, for the same reason I wouldn't say hi to most of the people I pass by in the office: because they weren't someone I knew. Of course this might vary depending on context, but I wa…

> Do other people say hi to every single person you see in the building every day? Yeah, pretty much.

To me this sounds bizarre, like trying to greet every person you pass by in a city. I see dozens, if not hundreds of people in the office every day, if I said hi to everyone it would be really strange.

Re: Poor in Tech

#744

Post by arp242 »

username90 wrote: post #258
strken wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying her less than the interns was not a very nice thing to do.

She is a writer and not a software engineer. Comparing her salary to software engineer interns therefore isn't fair.

The article doesn't mention they're software engineering interns, and she made less than some other jobs too: "I still made less than any of the executive assistants, or the receptionist. I was, in fact, the lowest-paid person in the building including the interns"

The way I read it, it implies that the receptionist got paid more than than the interns. Either way, she got paid less even than than receptionist, which is generally not exactly a high-paid job.

It's also not clear to me what exactly her job was by the way?

I don't know how things are in the US, but I've never seen interns being paid more than a token amount in Europe. You generally take on interns as a public service and to spot potential talent to hire, not because they're good/productive programmers. A good internship requires quite a lot of guidance from a senior developer.

Re: Poor in Tech

#745

Post by arp242 »

umeshunni wrote: post #695
GuB-42 wrote: post #681

I started to sympathize and even being admirative at times, then it got darker. One word: theft. Taking advantage of free snacks, fine, it is what they are for. Taking stuff back home is borderline but ok. Not handing back the $350 headphones because no one is looking, definitely not ok. The way she described the situation as "everyone is rich so no need to lock thing up and check everything" instead of "people trust…

This is a work of fiction (The author is a novelist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meg_Elison )

Are you sure? Because to me it read like it was an actual experience. I am confused now, and to be honest I feel a little deceived by it if it turns out to be fiction, because that's not how it's written and comes off (and since many people here seem to take it as a real experience, I don't think I'm being especially dimwitted here).

But again, I'm not sure that it's fiction? It's on the "blog" and most things just seem personal stuff like a typical blog?

Re: Poor in Tech

#746

Post by arp242 »

Philip-J-Fry wrote: post #289
GeriatricYouth wrote: post #36

> I knew I was the only poor person at my tech startup because I was afraid to seek mentorship from anyone above me, convinced that even asking would seem like bothersome begging. I watched the people around me network effortlessly, assured of favors and good words put in. I could only think in terms of what I could offer and how I could survive; they were thinking on the next level where they never had to wonder if…

It's definitely not anything to do with being poor. It's a confidence thing and having a will to learn and improve. Throughout life we always learn from those who are more experienced. Your seniors are there specifically for seeking guidance. You 100% should have spoken to teachers or tutors throughout school. Their job is to teach you and many of them enjoy sharing their knowledge and seeing someone want to better t…

> It's definitely not anything to do with being poor. It's a confidence thing and having a will to learn and improve.

Sure, but being poor often means "just do what you're told" in jobs, schools, etc. and definitely can lead to these kind of confidence issues.

Re: Poor in Tech

#747

Post by giantg2 »

dack wrote: post #742
giantg2 wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a family to support and have no options (the tech was FileNet and later Neoxam, and the wife refuses to relocate).

Hey, sorry to hear about your predicament. A lot of companies hire remotely these days, or are totally remote (Gitlab comes to mind). Two things I would recommend if you are open to advice: 1. Consider the possibility that you have some skills to grow to achieve more senior levels. Confidence helps, but it's not enough on it's own. 2. Interview at other companies that don't require you to relocate to see what you're…

1. I'm not posting for senior roles. I know I have more to learn about the new technologies since I'm switching stacks. It's not just confidence that makes me think I was performing at that level. The olny reason I wasn't officially given the title is because of politics and poor leadership by my superiors. I had people from other teams calling me a tech lead, a commendation letter from another team due to my involvement in an enterprise wide upgrade, my supervisor said she wanted me to get the highest performance rating but couldn't make it happen (political reasons), and everyone on the team treated me like the tech lead and even called me that. For the senior developer year, it was pretty similar but since we had an official tech lead hired on I let him handle half the elevations and half the interaction with other teams. My manager even said when he gets a new task that's highly technical and difficult, he gives it me or the tech lead. I met some people from outside my team offsite by chance. We were talking about work stuff pretty regularly. They where surprised when I said I was only a midlevel dev. They thought I was a senior dev or tech lead based on the things I was saying and doing. I had the same thing happen on the next team I went to where some techleads in the department were surprised that I was only a midlevel. Also I was the ASC for that application and recieved excellent reviews from everyone about that role. That role is supposed to be for people who are a senior dev or higher. Unfortunately there were political issues in that group too.

So after two years of working like this, my supervisor (different one) tells me that I could be promoted but I have to work extra time everyday. Now I'm fine putting in some extra hours to make a date or run an elevation. I'm not just going to work extra hours above company policy as a normal thing. Why would I take a 13% increase in hours for a 7% raise? That's taking a rate cut for a position with more (official) responsibilities.

2. I'm probably not worth anything since I have to learn the new stacks. They have me in AWS tech, which is ok. I got certified, but that doesn't mean much since I dont get a lot of chances to use it. I get some experience in Java and Python ECS and Lambdas. Some Dynamo, Cloudwatch, SNS, SQS, etc. A lot of this is stuff like synthetic alerts or increasing test coverage, which sucks. But then they also throw me on no/low code stuff like Splunk and Tableau, which also sucks. I'm never going to become an expert if the type of work is constantly changing and there are big gaps between when I last used that skill and when I'm asked to do it again.

Re: Poor in Tech

#748

Post by bsanr2 »

itsyaboi wrote: post #556
g_sch wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the author's point about stealing has more to do with the way low-wage workers are assumed to be criminals by their employers, and have to deal with various invasive security measures their employer requires.

> I think the author's point about stealing has more to do with the way low-wage workers are assumed to be criminals by their employers, and have to deal with various invasive security measures their employer requires. Assuming that all low-wage workers are criminals is obviously bad, from a "fellow human being" point of view. And yet, the author describes stealing $350 headphones in the last lines of the article bec…

IME employee "shrinkage" has less to do with opportunity (remember, employees know the security posture of their workplace; if the public has access, engineering around them is not difficult), and more to do with motive. That is, shrinkage increases when employees are underpaid and disrespected. As is common everywhere, observation of arbitrary rules is down to the push-pull of saving face vs survival. So the issue is not the purported exceptional criminality of low-wage workers, but the low wage itself.

The aforementioned security posture is also often misaligned. I've worked at a warehouse where the only things that could be stolen are fill hoses and washing machines. Clearly, no one was walking out with anything of significance, but we still had to empty our pockets and step through a metal detector every time we hit the floor. Meanwhile, thousands of dollars of easily-pocketable personal electronics disappeared from another warehouse; no metal detector.

Re: Poor in Tech

#749

Post by bsanr2 »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #353
magicalhippo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm definitely not poor, and I've always greeted the cleaning staff. That's not a sign of being poor, it's a sign of not being an ass.

There's another side of this which is that you and the janitor have very little common ground so while you can say hi to each other anything beyond the most basic small-talk is going to get very uncomfortable for both parties very fast. I'm not going to post my credentials on HN but I have it on good authority that these jobs suck enough without having to pretend to relate to your customer. Hello is fine but beyond t…

This could be easily remedied by paying everyone who works in a given building similarly.

Re: Poor in Tech

#750

Post by websitescenes »

isoskeles wrote: post #512
websitescenes wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Victim blaming is THE classic tactic used to ignore the very real situational plights of many, if not most, Americans.

Counterpoint: Playing the victim is THE classic tactic used to rationalize and excuse the behavior of many, if not most, Americans. (If you found this point incorrect, dumb, or worthless, consider that is how many people feel about the point I am replying to.)

The only difference is that if I’m wrong, some people got free stuff but if you’re wrong, people are languishing in despair with little to no lifeline. Are you willing to bet other peoples lives on the idea that your experience is truth? It’s not something I am willing to do; I value human life too much.
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