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Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

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Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#741

Post by fishermanbill »

Barrin92 wrote: post #639
fishermanbill wrote: post #637

When will Europe realise that there is no second place when it comes to a market - the larger player will always eventually end up owning everything. I can not put into words how furious I am at the UK's Conservative party for not protecting our last great tech company. Europe has been fooled into the USA's ultra free market system (which works brilliantly for the US but is terrible for everybody else). As such Ameri…

tech is only 10% of the US economy, and European nations are much more reliant on free-trade. Germany in particular, whose exports constitute almost 47% of their GDP, globally only comparable to South Korea for a developed nation. I get that Hackernews is dominated by people working in software and software news, but as a part of the real economy (and not the stock market) it's actually not that large and Europe does…

Tech sadly is everything hence why it dominates the stock market. Information is the new oil and all that. Its much more than purely economic, whoever controls the tech controls those who use the tech. Hence why China has created its own tech companies - they arent stupid.

I think you're also getting mixed up between 'free-trade' and 'free-markets'. Free trade is about trade deals: NAFTA, WTO, EU, CPTPP, Mercour or whatever trade grouping you want - generally to do with the removal of taxes and standardisation of goods between countries.

Free markets on the other hand is do with the liberalisation of markets i.e removing government intervention (as much as possible) i.e regulations and restrictions of buying and selling of stuff - in this case companies (which can be covered in a trade deal admittedly)

What I'm advocating is that British gov (and most European gov's) restricts the selling of their tech companies based purely on the importance of the tech company.

Why?

Because as I say its do to with control. We're not able to make democratic, sovereign decisions when the fabric of how most things are done is controlled completely by someone else.

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#742

Post by fishermanbill »

ksec wrote: post #688
fishermanbill wrote: post #637

When will Europe realise that there is no second place when it comes to a market - the larger player will always eventually end up owning everything. I can not put into words how furious I am at the UK's Conservative party for not protecting our last great tech company. Europe has been fooled into the USA's ultra free market system (which works brilliantly for the US but is terrible for everybody else). As such Ameri…

I sort or agree but those aren't exactly great example. I dont see how Renderware would compete with Unreal. Even their owner EA choose Unreal. They were great in PS2 era, but next Gen console ( PS3 ) they were not. Nokia was dead even before Stephen Elop became the CEO. So the Microsoft acquisition has nothing to do with it. IMG - Yes. But I would argue they were dead either way. They couldn't get more GPU licensing…

I'm a game rendering engineer that uses Unreal (and used Renderware) so I know a little about this subject.

If Renderware hadn't been brought by EA (and hence controlled by your competitor), the rest of the industry would probably have kept using Renderware as it was the best option and development would have continued. It would have been built on to deliver next gen experiences.

It mirrors pretty much perfectly what is wrong with the ARM Nvidia deal.

Nokia yes wasn't doing well in the smart phone sector but was doing excellently in the feature phone sector. Hence why HMD Global is now doing very well selling those handsets.

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#743

Post by chakintosh »

fishermanbill wrote: post #637

When will Europe realise that there is no second place when it comes to a market - the larger player will always eventually end up owning everything. I can not put into words how furious I am at the UK's Conservative party for not protecting our last great tech company. Europe has been fooled into the USA's ultra free market system (which works brilliantly for the US but is terrible for everybody else). As such Ameri…

DICE, the Swedish game developer, bought by EA and is now belly up

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#744

Post by fishermanbill »

mytherin wrote: post #646
alfalfasprout wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you really think more protectionism will help? Maybe part of the problem is that due to so many regulations, there's not a healthy startup ecosystem and the compensation isn't remotely high enough to draw the best talent.

Regulation has little to do with it. Most of the tech industry is inherently winner-takes-all or winner-takes-most because of how easy it is to scale up tech solutions. US companies get a huge head-start because of their large home market compared to the fragmented EU market, and can easily carry that advantage into also dominating the EU market. There is a reason Russia and China have strong tech companies and Europ…

Absolutely. The only bit I don't agree with is that tech isn't everything - to all intense and purposes it is (at this point in time).

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#745

Post by tibbydudeza »

klelatti wrote: post #627
bigyikes wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noob question: how does the x86 licensing work? Does Intel still own the rights? Why would they license to AMD? Why don’t they license to others?

Very briefly: - They don't license because they can make a lot more money manufacturing the chips themselves. - AMD also has the right to x86 because Intel originally allowed them to build x86 compatible chips (some customers insisted on a 'second source' for cpus) and following legal action and settlements between the two companies over the years there is now a comprehensive cross licensing agreement in place. [1] -…

Afaik they could implement the ISA but not the Intel interconnect bus so AMD licensed Hypertransport (as used in the Alpha) from DEC so you had different motherboards/chipsets.

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#746

Post by captainbland »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #516
DCKing wrote: post #510

This is terrible. Not really just because of Nvidia - which has a lot of problems I've previously commented on the rumors of this [1] - but Nvidia's ownership completely changes ARM's incentives. ARM created a business model for itself where they had to act as a "BDFL" for the ARM architecture and IP. They made an architecture, CPU designs, and GPU designs for others. They had no stake in the chip making game, and th…

To play devil’s advocate a bit, are nVidia's incentives necessarily so different? Their goal will be to make as much money as possible, and it's clear that licensing has been a winning strategy for ARM. Samsung comes to mind as another company that makes their own TVs, phones, SSDs, ect., but is also perfectly happy to license the underlying screens and chips in those products to other companies. From my vantage poin…

The main difference I'd say is that ARM holds more of a potentially captive industry that is totally intertwined with its IP. Most of the products that Samsung sell to other industries are more or less fungible with products that other third parties sell but the ARM design rights are going to be incredibly difficult to replace. Entire ecosystems of electronics and software are built on it.

There's a whole lot of inertia for Nvidia to take advantage of here while the rest of the industry figures out where it's going.

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#747

Post by tibbydudeza »

baddox wrote: post #569
klelatti wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we know that Samsung hasn't stifled some potential competitors by refusing to sell them screens or by selling them an inferior product?

Samsung makes (excellent) screens for iPhones, which are huge competitors to Samsung's own flagship phones, but Samsung still seems happy to take the profits from the screen sales. If there are smaller potential competitors that Samsung won't work with it's most likely because the scale is too small to be in their economic interest, not because they're rejecting profits in order to stifle potential competitors.

Samsung is a massive company ... the division that handles screens is managed independently from the one that makes smartphones.

It must be probably weird for Apple technical staff to communicate so closely with one division of Samsung while fighting for market share with another division of the same company.

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#748

Post by def_true_false »

adventured wrote: post #665
i386 wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You buy, you control, that's how the world works. Only in countries with poor regulators like the states does it work like this.

No, it works like that all across the world in fact. It works like that in Japan: say hello to the many giant conglomerates that rule their economy top to bottom. It works like that in South Korea: say hello to Samsung, roughly 12% of South Korea's GDP in a given year (Walmart by contrast is equal to 2.5% of US GDP, and that's crazy big). It works like that in Germany: say hello to a parade of big old industrial gian…

Sales of important companies have to be approved by regulators, e.g. "Reuters: EU regulators approve ArcelorMittal to buy Italian peer Ilva".

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ilva-m-a-arcelormitta-eu/...

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#749

Post by tibbydudeza »

smolder wrote: post #602
013a wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nvidia is a total powerhouse when it comes to chip design. Most people here are looking at this from the angle of "how does ARM benefit Nvidia", but I think its more valuable to consider "how does Nvidia benefit ARM". In 2020, given what we know about Ampere, I really don't think there's another company out there with better expertise in microprocessor design (but, to be fair, lets say top 3 next to Apple and AMD). N…

AMDs answer to Ampere won't be shabby based on info about next generation consoles. They're also widening the gap on CPUs with Zen to where ARM won't have an easy time making inroads on server/workstation. On the Intel side, the process obstacles have been tragic, but they have plenty of hot products and plenty of x86 market share to lose, or in other words, plenty of time to recover CPU performance dominance.

As Linus said ARM will only be widely adopted if there is availability of affordable hardware that developers can actually buy.

Apple has pulled this off about 4 times because of their small market share and willingness to deprecate old hardware, software and the close control of the hardware they release.|

In the PC world - x86 will remain with us for a LONG time to come.

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#750

Post by fishermanbill »

auggierose wrote: post #692
fishermanbill wrote: post #637

When will Europe realise that there is no second place when it comes to a market - the larger player will always eventually end up owning everything. I can not put into words how furious I am at the UK's Conservative party for not protecting our last great tech company. Europe has been fooled into the USA's ultra free market system (which works brilliantly for the US but is terrible for everybody else). As such Ameri…

brought = bought ?

lol yes and in the next line you see I used 'bought' just a simple typo.
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