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Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

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Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#741

Post by buzzerbetrayed »

jjeaff wrote: post #722
jlarocco wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you in principle, but disagree in practice. For every person who knows what they're doing and can trust themselves, there are 1000 who will install malware and other crap and end up at an Apple store getting it fixed, and they'll blame Apple instead of themselves.

You talk like this is some unique problem. This has been solved for a long time. Warranties have terms of service. If your car is under warranty and the engine fails due to a defect, warranty covers it. If your engine fails because you drove it into a river, then the warranty don't cover it and you'll pay out of pocket for repairs.

So you're effectively saying that Apple must allow a user to install malware (likely unintentionally), but then Apple is also responsible for paying to fix it?

I feel like I have to be misunderstanding you because that makes no sense.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#742

Post by vlod »

nouveaux wrote: post #683
vlod wrote: post #676

Wouldn't it be REALLY interesting if Unity stood by Epic? i.e. if Epic is forced to stop making games, Unity will no longer support our engine on Mac either. This I think would put a huge dent in games on the Mac platform. I wonder if Apple would change their mind?

It would be interesting but why would they?

Generally standing up to a bully is noble, :) Or maybe if they stick together they can change Apple's mind.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#743

Post by tfigment »

jachee wrote: post #613
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A one day 10% off sale is a change in behavior due to no action taken by the user triggered remotely by the developer. Is a sale very close to malware?

Depends. Does the sale require me to submit payment details to a not-already-trusted platform? The change remotely triggered by Epic redirects users to a third-party (Epic) payment system, but what if it were, say, a malicious Epic insider? How much user payment info/cash could they grab before they were detected and disabled?

They actually gave 2 options. If you didnt trust the game maker and their discount you could continue paying the premium to Apple directly and continue feeling safe.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#744

Post by dstaley »

goodlifeodyssey wrote: post #703
dstaley wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic very specifically defined the "market" as iOS devices. Their argument is based on the assertion that Android is not an alternative to the App Store since it's a completely different operating system. So, Apple actually has 100% market share of the iOS market.

> Epic very specifically defined the "market" as iOS devices. That is true, but I think it is debatable whether that is a reasonable way to define "market". It would be as if a vendor wanted to sell their goods in a grocery store. The grocery store says no for some reason. The vendor disagrees and sues them, saying they have a monopoly on all grocery store sales on that particular corner. "Wait, but there is a grocer…

That is not an apt analogy because the switching costs for grocery stores is no where near as high with iOS. If you want the full argument I highly recommend reading the full legal filing.[1]

[1] https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/apple-complaint-734589783.pdf

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#745

Post by actuator »

amaccuish wrote: post #97

What took me aback was the withdrawing permission to notarise their apps for Mac. That was only meant to be a check for known vulnerabilities/malicious software. Apple was more within their rights to kick Fortnite until the dust has settled from the iOS store, that was the retaliation, but now a mechanism supposedly for security has been repurposed as punishment. That's a pretty nasty move and I feel the mask has sli…

While Epic can be accused of starting this intentionally to prove a point, this just goes into the territory of chilling effect now. I have always been wary of their power over iPhone/iOS ecosystem, but if they are going to use a mistake and their power there into a largely different ecosystem MacOS, that is beyond scary. Consider that the same company has many other ecosystems like TV, speakers too.

Apple is too scary at this point for big developers like Epic who are well diversified on other platforms. Imagine the fate of small/upcoming developers who might start with Apple's products itself.

Apple needs to be really reined in either by regulation or customers, latter being way harder because it is harder to convince people of long term detrimental effects. I stopped using iPhone long time back, but now I will make a conscious effort to not even live in the MacOS ecosystem.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#746

Post by tfigment »

jachee wrote: post #616
shiburizu wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't being fought over a data breach or privacy concerns and that's why Epic is smart to fight at this angle. Apple says "you can't do this", but Epic does the thing and says "I should be allowed to do this. As you can all see, this is what happens when I try to put my foot down on it and here's this target audience of people who are benefited by the thing I'm trying to do". This works for them because they are…

Redirecting user payment info is totally a data/privacy breach.

They gave 2 options the original through apple and then via tem. How is paying them different from when i pay uber or lyft through an app? Apple doesnt get 30% in that case.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#747

Post by enos_feedler »

actuator wrote: post #745
amaccuish wrote: post #97

What took me aback was the withdrawing permission to notarise their apps for Mac. That was only meant to be a check for known vulnerabilities/malicious software. Apple was more within their rights to kick Fortnite until the dust has settled from the iOS store, that was the retaliation, but now a mechanism supposedly for security has been repurposed as punishment. That's a pretty nasty move and I feel the mask has sli…

While Epic can be accused of starting this intentionally to prove a point, this just goes into the territory of chilling effect now. I have always been wary of their power over iPhone/iOS ecosystem, but if they are going to use a mistake and their power there into a largely different ecosystem MacOS, that is beyond scary. Consider that the same company has many other ecosystems like TV, speakers too. Apple is too sca…

If a business partner is acting in bad faith (violating terms) I think it’s fair for the impact to spread across the organization.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#748

Post by zeroimpl »

weixiyen wrote: post #708
zeroimpl wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are also being sued by Epic. Would you keep doing business with a company suing you?

Curious to your thoughts regarding the mafia whacking witnesses who are about to testify in court.

What on earth are you talking about?

My response was based on the OP suggesting the account closure was based purely on the App Store policy violation. I’m pretty sure it’s based on more than that, such as the fact that Epic is suing them in bad faith.

There’s probably a million app developers which have violated the policies in some manner at some point and yet very few get blacklisted by Apple.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#749

Post by actuator »

enos_feedler wrote: post #747
actuator wrote: post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Epic can be accused of starting this intentionally to prove a point, this just goes into the territory of chilling effect now. I have always been wary of their power over iPhone/iOS ecosystem, but if they are going to use a mistake and their power there into a largely different ecosystem MacOS, that is beyond scary. Consider that the same company has many other ecosystems like TV, speakers too. Apple is too sca…

If a business partner is acting in bad faith (violating terms) I think it’s fair for the impact to spread across the organization.

We can debate about the validity of Apple's concerns on iOS, but since Epic violated terms of iOS, for now Apple is within its right to take action there.

If they had stopped with just suspending their iOS publishing powers, it could have been understandable. Taking action on all platforms just seems like abuse, it is not like Epic was doing something like distributing malware, they broke the payment terms of iOS.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#750

Post by buzzerbetrayed »

ForHackernews wrote: post #160
giovannibajo1 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortnite is available on several different game consoles and platforms (most of which, by the way, have a 30% commission fee). It used to be the case that it wasn’t available on iOS, and it was a planetary success already. Customers that had a iOS device and absolutely wanted Fortnite had to resort to use another platform, eg. buy a PC or a PlayStation. Now we’re back on the situations where we were before: Fortnite…

Holy s * this is a surreal comment to read on Hacker News. Once upon a time we believed in general-purpose computing devices that allowed users -- their owners! -- to run whatever software they pleased. Now you speak of "platforms" that charge a tax in return for preventing users from installing software -- on their own devices they actually literally own, mind. Can you imagine if your car would only operate on roads…

So let's hear your argument on why Nintendo should allow you to run any software on their switch.

And even if you do think that, let's see some evidence of you arguing that case as passionately as you argue this one.

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