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EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

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Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#741

Post by 08-15 »

0x5f3759df-i wrote: post #711

>However, those backing these provisions say the arguments above are the result of scaremongering by big US tech companies, eager to keep control of the web’s biggest platforms. This is the most hilarious quote in the article. The only thing this will do is entrench massive players like Google and Facebook who already have these systems in place. I honestly cannot comprehend how anyone could support this law while ha…

> Do these politicians really not understand the awful implications of these filtering systems for free speech and fair use?

They do, and free speech and fair use are important issues to them.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#742

Post by cge »

dannyobrien wrote: post #458
the6threplicant wrote: post #188

A comment from someone who has actually read the article: https://np.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/9ely8y/why_the_w... For example: ...the EFF argue that the idea of what constitutes a link is not fully defined. I'm not sure what they're talking about. Recitals 31-36 set out the concepts in article 11, fairly clearly. They make it clear that what is being protected is substantial or harmful copying of significant…

(Disclosure -- I work on this for EFF) You can read the recitals this commenter is describing here, including the latest amendments that were voted in the Parliamentary plenary. As you'd imagine, I disagree with his interpretation. https://juliareda.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Copyright_Se... Firstly, these are just recitals. They're not a binding part of the Directive, they just lay out the justifications for the…

Article 11 point 2(a) also mentions hyperlinking, at least in the version linked from the EU press release (http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//...).

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#743

Post by marknadal »

badloginagain wrote: post #659
CodeMage wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I share your perplexion. At best, these technical solutions will just break off a smaller, "splinter" Internet, unused by the vast majority of users. The average user does not know or care about these things and this isn't likely to change without an effort to properly educate future generations.

Moving from a world wide web to a decentralized, fractured web? Instead of WWW you have FBW (FacebookWeb, GW (GoogleWeb), AW (AppleWeb). What a sad future that would be.

If there is no service then GDPR acts as a higher precedent. EU would have to change their law that users are not allowed to store XYZ content on their own harddrives.

So yes, P2P/decentralization is a perfectly legal alternative for the time being.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#744

Post by ivan_gammel »

opportune wrote: post #597
closeparen wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pro-GDPR "good riddance" argument applies just as well here: obliterating operations which are too fly-by-night to obey the law is, in fact, the socially desired outcome. The law is the law. We shouldn't exempt small players from internet regulation any more than we should exempt small factories from pollution controls or small automakers from safety rules. European institutions do no wrong [0]. If a website's co…

Sure small players shouldn’t be exempt from the law, but surely it’s ridiculous to expect every website with user uploaded content to have an on-call team of content managers to comply with takedowns. This hurts small players much more than big players, because now it’s not possible to be a small player in this area. It’s not exemptions which are important, it’s understanding why this makes the entire approach flawed…

I'm not sure it's entirely impossible to be a small player.

Let's say, a small player allows their users to make a copyright statement with the "proof of original content" (not necessarily 100% valid, just something like "I, Max Mustermann, confirm that this work is my original content produced on 13.09 in Berlin..."), possibly, automatically. This statement will identify copyright holder of the content and mark it valid, since copyright holder himself uploaded the content. This may (but not necessarily will) mean that other filters/copyright checks may not be executed, because the platform allows the participation only of original content creators.

One more option (assuming that the national law will take amendment 149 into account) is to implement a filter as an API call to the server designated by the right holder and expect the claim/"no infringement" response with some reasonable timeout (1 sec) and detailed response in extended time frame (10 min). It's a cheap "now it's your problem" solution, that might actually be allowed.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#745

Post by tormeh »

trendia wrote: post #737
dmix wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about foreign companies operating in europe...wouldn't they have to comply? Or does this only apply to companies with headquarters in Europe?

Honest question: What happens if a Russian or Chinese search engine doesn't comply? How would the EU block them? This is especially important if the Russian or Chinese entity has no locus or presence in Europe. (for instance, would you be able to get around it using a different DNS, or by using a VPN?)

They'll just block payments to those sites. You know, from the advertisers - the actual customers of the platform. No one cares what people use for free. This is about money.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#746

Post by cge »

linuxftw wrote: post #724
0x5f3759df-i wrote: post #711

>However, those backing these provisions say the arguments above are the result of scaremongering by big US tech companies, eager to keep control of the web’s biggest platforms. This is the most hilarious quote in the article. The only thing this will do is entrench massive players like Google and Facebook who already have these systems in place. I honestly cannot comprehend how anyone could support this law while ha…

> Do these politicians really not understand the awful implications of these filtering systems for free speech and fair use? They believe what their wealthy donors tell them to believe. It won't affect the well connected politicians in any measurable way, they'll still be wealthy. Meanwhile, independent organizations will suffer while the big players get all the sweet licensing deals. Regulations are ALWAYS about pun…

Note that Article 2 point 4(b) appears to entirely excludes from Article 13 rules organizations that are "small" or "micro," which, unless I am mistaken, means organizations that have less than 50 employees and €10m turnover or balance sheet value.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#747

Post by tormeh »

kowdermeister wrote: post #507
jasonkostempski wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it matter if that company is from EU? Even a new engine centralized in the US won't be able to operate in the EU without substantial cost. That's a pretty big market/data source to miss out on.

I've seen the debate and some politician said that big platforms should be stopped. Which is why I thought that why not work on creating an environment that supports competition rise from the EU? But yeah, it shouldn't matter where new players come from, however I think a Chinese startup will laugh at GDPR and upload filters.

They won't laugh at the lack of revenue from European advertisers. No one cares what people use for free. This is about money.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#748

Post by isostatic »

jules wrote: post #729
0x5f3759df-i wrote: post #711

>However, those backing these provisions say the arguments above are the result of scaremongering by big US tech companies, eager to keep control of the web’s biggest platforms. This is the most hilarious quote in the article. The only thing this will do is entrench massive players like Google and Facebook who already have these systems in place. I honestly cannot comprehend how anyone could support this law while ha…

> I honestly cannot comprehend how anyone could support this law while having any understanding of how the internet works. These are the same politicians that brought us the law that forces every website to ask EU visitors permission to store cookies with a big fat modal dialog, so I don't think you need to worry that people who any understanding of how the internet works supported this law. Imagine all the time wast…

> These are the same politicians that brought us the law that forces every website to ask EU visitors permission to store cookies with a big fat modal dialog

No it doesn't. For example

https://news.ycombinator.com/

Does not have any such dialog

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#749

Post by skookumchuck »

linuxftw wrote: post #670
ericdykstra wrote: post #6

UKIP and the Green Party joined forces to prevent Article 13 from getting rammed through without a public discussion. It was a good first step, but here we are, 2 months hence, and it was passed with virtually no amendments to the original text. This is an abhorrent decision by people who have no idea how the internet works. Markus Meechum (aka Count Dankula) was at the hearings, and reported that MEPs voting on the…

> This is an abhorrent decision by people who have no idea how the internet works. Same sad song as it ever was. Keep giving more control to the government and they'll keep ratcheting down the screws on you. An economic union should be about tariffs and the free movement of goods, not an entirely unelected bureaucratic federal government. Centralizing authority only benefits the well connected political class.

Most people seem to think we are just one more law away from creating Utopia.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#750

Post by fetbaffe »

untog wrote: post #739
linuxftw wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do these politicians really not understand the awful implications of these filtering systems for free speech and fair use? They believe what their wealthy donors tell them to believe. It won't affect the well connected politicians in any measurable way, they'll still be wealthy. Meanwhile, independent organizations will suffer while the big players get all the sweet licensing deals. Regulations are ALWAYS about pun…

Does the EU have a problem with wealthy donors? I've heard this criticism levelled against US politicians and it's justified, but in this case I think it might just be sheer ignorance on the part of the EU legislators.

Don’t know how common it is, but it has happened

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_cash_for_influence_scan...

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