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A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

visa.lafrenchtech.com

741–750 of 751 posts

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#741
post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wanted to add another data point for comparison. South East USA. All numbers in USD. Gross earnings = 104000 / year Bonus + Stocks = ~12000 / year Income tax = 31986 (27.5%) (Fed + State + Social security + Medicare) Earnings after taxes = 84014 Expenses : ----------- Rent : 1 BR in the city = 800/month or 9600/year (Living by myself) Utilities = 150 / mont or 1800 / year (Phone + Internet + Electricity) 401K co…

Thanks for the information and good luck with your move. New experiences and family are worth significantly more than money - best of luck and have fun!

Thanks! Needed to hear that from someone else.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#742
post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the point is, that in the true sense you don't really get any paid holidays. If your employer considers you worth $120K, then with 2 months of holidays, he will simply pay you $100K spread over 12 months. In other words, paid or unpaid doesn't mean anything (other than a lack of option to those who don't want these vacations) as long as the employer and employee are free to negotiate the salary.

Salaries are the same at companies that offer RTTs and companies that do not. I’ve more RTTs and I’m more paid that all my friends with the same profile in similar companies.

I don't think you understood my point. Lemme put it this way, if govt in France made it a law that you must pay 10% tip to the waiters at the restaurant, do you really think that the waiters would really be 10% richer?

If this were the law, would you not simply consider the cost of dining at a Restaurant to have gone up by 10%? And if that were the case then your eating out behavior would change the same way if restaurants DID raise their prices by 10%.

Since waiters are getting 10% more from the customers, this means restaurant owners will reduce the wages of the waiters by 10% and reduce the prices of the food by 10% (so at the end the waiters end up getting the same amount of salary, it costs the same amount to you to eat at a restaurant and the profit margin of the restaurant owner remains the same).

The fact is, that a company does not (and cannot, even if they wanted to) differentiate between "vacation" part and "salary" part of the employee compensation package. At the end of the day, the vacation costs them money and paying employee salary also costs them money. So when a company decides what compensation package to offer to a candidate.

For instance, if an employee would bring a marginal productivity of $100K in a year, then either they can offer 10% time off (26.1 days off, assuming 261 working days) + 90% in cash, or they can offer 0% in time off and 100% of the salary it would be the same to them.

Technically as the number of vacation time goes up, the cost to the company goes up too (if you took 6 months off, then this means the company might have to get new employees to fill for the remaining six years, which could be expensive).

In your example, you're just valued that much more by your company than your friends are by their companies.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#743
post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the point is, that in the true sense you don't really get any paid holidays. If your employer considers you worth $120K, then with 2 months of holidays, he will simply pay you $100K spread over 12 months. In other words, paid or unpaid doesn't mean anything (other than a lack of option to those who don't want these vacations) as long as the employer and employee are free to negotiate the salary.

Salaries are the same at companies that offer RTTs and companies that do not. I’ve more RTTs and I’m more paid that all my friends with the same profile in similar companies.

Lemme try to explain it this way:

35 hours + 4 weeks of holidays = 37h per week + 4 weeks of holidays + 2.5 weeks of RTT.

The salary is averaged over the year and you're paid the same every month in both cases.

Someone who does 37h per week + 4 weeks of holidays + NO RTT, would be paid more over the year.

The hours are driven down and the yearly pay is driven down as well, because of the 35h and the RTT. It's subtle but it's happening.

Note that in theory, you can have the choice to not take the RTT and work instead. In practise, all employers force you to take the holidays so you don't get a choice.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are definitely forced to pay. Noawadays, it's even picked and forced by your employer (but taken on your pay). You may not be able choose or deny the plan you're offered. It's messy.

It's forced from your employer . This is, in fact, a benefit most of the time (as your employer also contributes to it).

It's not a benefit when you're forced to take it AND your wife is forced to take one as well (that both cover both of you). So you end up paying double. Then not only it's taken away from your pay directly by the company but it's also a taxable benefit so you pay taxes on top. Just saying.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you can't make an individual perspective and use the plural "you are much worse off in the EU" at the same time. Some individuals will fare better in the US, but on average, you'll fare better in France. Now I agree with you, financially as a tech engineer, you'll come out with more money working in the US. I disagree that the extra money will lead to a better quality of life, but QOL is very personal. Some peo…

This entire discussion is scoped to engineering salaries, I'm not trying to make arguments about everyone regardless of career. For any given engineer, they are definitely financially worse off in the EU. I'm sympathetic to QOL arguments. Personally, I really don't like SV. NYC is fairly nice though. Plus, the real secret is that after working here for a few years you can switch to remote work in an even higher QOL c…

Ah, sorry if I generalised your argument, ya in the case of tech engineers I'd have to agree with your statement. If you're a decent engineer, you wont find the kind of financial prospect you do in the big tech cities in the US anywhere else, not even close.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#746
post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the information and good luck with your move. New experiences and family are worth significantly more than money - best of luck and have fun!

Thanks! Needed to hear that from someone else.

If you ever need more encouragement, my email is in my profile. I am nearly 40 and looking back, I see many opportunities where I should have done exactly what you are doing. A part of me is very envious but another part of me is going to cheer you on as you embark upon this amazing adventure.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#747
post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't be any worse than the Federal, State, City, property tax nightmare US residents in desirable locations (NYC, SF, LA) deal with.

It can be unfortunately :) But that was not the point, the point was that people talk about "raw", or "after taxes", while it does not mean the same. In France when they talk about "income after taxes" (~23% salary taxes), it is before the equivalent of US Federal+State taxes. These ~23% are about "social contribution" (mandatory healthcare, retirement, unemployment, etc.). Only then, the income taxes are computed on…

Right, but we also pay 7.6% in social security in addition to income taxes, along with hefty healthcare premiums + deductibles which you don't have to worry about[1]. We also don't have the benefit of free higher education. Despite the depressed technical wages, overall, I think the French have a better deal from a quality of life perspective -- especially if, as you say, they have children.

I hope their system proves sustainable in the long run... I wish I had a way to participate in it (I could apply for the visa, I suppose), but it would be difficult for my US academic wife to break into French academia[2] at a suitable level.

[1] In a bad year, we're talking $13K in deductibles for a family of four on an average insurance plan.

[2] Now that I think about it, she studies French domestic politics. Hmmm...

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Irish is the national and first official language. Oh, and some of us speak English too. Why?

> Oh, and some of us speak English too. Don't you mean most ?

I mean nearly all.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#749

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Top 5% most paid developers in Europe are just fine, trust me.

Not really unless you are living in Switzerland which is no part of EU. I got a friend and atm he works in a top bank at the highest position a dev can acquire. He makes £120k a year without his bonuses etc. Thing is he is living in London and houses are so expensive in London and generally the cost of life and the taxes are drilling him. Am not gonna say he is not comfortable, he definitely is alright, although he h…

I lived in London where I was on 115k GBP per year. To be honest I lived in an ex council flat in not a great area and never really felt like I had "made" it (despite being in the perceived 1%). Everything went to saving for a house deposit for a pretty miserable house in london!!! The only time we actually felt middle class was when we travelled to cheaper destinations overseas.

I was transferred to SF about 2 years ago. I got a nice pay increase to $250k, live in a lovely neighbourhood, bought 2 cars (1 new, 1 nearly new), 2 motorcycles (1 new, 1 nearly new), have already saved 100k USD and now planning on getting my sweet wife a great boob job.

Never looked back!

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#750
post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how people trot out universal healthcare or pensions as a reason to ignore that European salaries are so much lower. With an American tech salary of $200k/yr, I can pay for all of that (health insurance, student loans, etc.) and still sock away $100k/yr in savings. That $100k is more than enough to build up a massive nest egg which will provide for me better than any pension or unemployment insurance would. If…

1. 200k are a exception not the norm 2. Quality of live is definitly higher in some parts of europe. There are public statistics for that [1] https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.j... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report [3] http://www.businessinsider.com/happiest-countries-best-quali... There is really no reason to argue that, more money does not mean more quality of life. E…

This.

I went to the US last summer and found most people in awe when I told them I was there for the whole month, and it was not even my first vacation that year.

The misunderstanding here, is that some believe 100k$ equals better life no matter what. In France the fact that most people have a decent life makes mine better as well.

Also, I'd like to point out that universal, guaranteed, un-gameable health insurance is VERY different from any insurance you could ever buy from a company.

I never even thought about the fact that something could go wrong to me and I would not have access to the best possible care for any reason whatsoever until I found out about Americans and I remember thinking that was really savage. Then I realized my luck.

To me, the problem is not in the concept, it's about tax evasion.

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