Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Apple is just as proprietary, commercial and anti-competitive as Microsoft here. I respectfully disagree. The OSX kernel XNU is open source, as are a ton of its components. That's huge in a lot of situations. Some things - not a lot, granted, but some, like FreeBSD's C++ stack and compiler - are even upstreamed back to mainstream open source projects by Apple employees.
>That's huge in a lot of situations. Some things - not a lot, granted, but some, like FreeBSD's C++ stack and compiler - are even upstreamed back to mainstream open source projects by Apple employees. ^ Citation need.
Ubuntu on Windows
741–750 of 933 posts
Re: Ubuntu on Windows
#742Earlier quoted context omitted.
Same history here. I did actually use Linux for quite a while but ultimately gave up because Linux just isn't good at the one job only an operating system can do, which is to make the hardware available in a reliable and efficient manner. I just got tired of fixing sound issues, trying to make a scanner work or investigating CPU states to fix heat and battery draining issues on yet another laptop. Ultimately, I think…
That's anecdata. Of course it can work the other way too. I've got a printer/scanner which "just works" with Linux. On Windows however they need crazy, proprietary driver/application which always lives in the traybar and tries hard to take over native windows settings.
Sure, that's what this whole thread is about. But I'm afraid that there is causality involved that we know about without collecting any sample data at all.
Developers of Linux device drivers for consumer devices quite often do not have access to all the hardware and information they need. And hardware makers quite often do not make high quality Linux device drivers for their consumer devices. For most consumer laptops, the vendor will not do integration testing to make sure everything works well together on Linux.
I don't think the right response to that is to deny that the average laptop or peripheral will work better with Windows. The right response is to make it clear that you have to make very deliberate hardware choices if you plan to use Linux and accept that much of the hardware you can use is always going to be slightly dated. And that is in fact what many Linux advocates are saying.
Choosing a Mac also restricts your hardware choices quite dramatically after all, so if a broad selection of hardware is your goal, Windows is the only game in town.
Re: Ubuntu on Windows
#743Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think a key point that is being missed here is most of the people excited about this probably run OSX, not Linux. OSX has long been the "'Linux' for people who don't really want to run Linux" (not really meant as an insult, I'm typing this from OSX right now). Apple is just as proprietary, commercial and anti-competitive as Microsoft here. FWIW, this excites me because it potentially means I can go from two machine…
"Apple is just as proprietary, commercial and anti-competitive as Microsoft here." The big difference is that Apple actually doesn't f k their users in the ass. People always complain how Apple products are so expensive etc. but you know that's how they make money and they actually invest in to the privacy and security of their users (good example: the FBI case) I will happily keep on paying high price for the Apple…
Yeah I'm sure all those celebs that had all their nude photos stolen from icloud would totally agree that Apple takes great care with personal data.
Are you trying to justify needlessly spending 600$ on a phone every year? That's your prerogative, you don't have to convince strangers on the internet.
Re: Ubuntu on Windows
#744Surprised I don't see anyone else mentioning this. This looks to me like typical Microsoft strategy that they utilized a lot 25 years ago. 1. when not leader in given market, make your product fully compatible with competitor 2. start gaining momentum (e.g. why should I use Linux, when on Windows I can run both Linux and Windows applications) 3. once becoming leader break up compatibility 4. rinse and repeat Happened…
What bothers me about people bringing Embrace, Extend, Extinguish is how they never mention how all the big software companies do this. For example, how many nice JavaScript features are in Google Chrome that aren't anywhere close to real standards? But when anyone but Microsoft does it they're just pushing the industry forward, not out to stab you in the back. Let's not call it Embrace, Extend, Extinguish until we s…
Apple took KHTML and when it started to fail, forked it into WebKit. Google took WebKit and when it started to fail, forked it into Blink.
When IE6 started to fail, the whole industry suffered. (And is now suffering again as Apple refuses to allow any other rendering engine but their failing WebKit port on iOS.)
Re: Ubuntu on Windows
#745Surprised I don't see anyone else mentioning this. This looks to me like typical Microsoft strategy that they utilized a lot 25 years ago. 1. when not leader in given market, make your product fully compatible with competitor 2. start gaining momentum (e.g. why should I use Linux, when on Windows I can run both Linux and Windows applications) 3. once becoming leader break up compatibility 4. rinse and repeat Happened…
> 2. start gaining momentum (e.g. why should I use Linux, when on Windows I can run both Linux and Windows applications) Remember OS/2 2.x? It could run Windows 3.x binaries, including GUI programs. The result was that noone wrote programs for OS/2. Windows programs would run both on Windows and on OS/2, so why write another one for OS/2? Why should anyone port Linux programs to Windows now? Just write for Linux and…
Re: Ubuntu on Windows
#746Re: Ubuntu on Windows
#747Surprised I don't see anyone else mentioning this. This looks to me like typical Microsoft strategy that they utilized a lot 25 years ago. 1. when not leader in given market, make your product fully compatible with competitor 2. start gaining momentum (e.g. why should I use Linux, when on Windows I can run both Linux and Windows applications) 3. once becoming leader break up compatibility 4. rinse and repeat Happened…
Thank you for mentioning this! Really bothered by all the positive comments, especially coming from savvy HN users. Gave this a long look and my main beef is that I couldn't possibly do anything on a Windows Machine in its' current state. Linux isn't just about running apps - there's a philosophy behind the system. Users first! As long as Microsoft continues to disrespect the rights of users in regard to privacy, dat…
In my context as a software engineer or as a private individual I didn't find your argument convincing from the point of view that it would expose any specific problems that are of my concern. If I was responsible for confidential data my views might align more with yours.
"As long as Microsoft continues to disrespect the rights of users in regard to privacy, data-collection, data-sharing with unnamed sources..."
I'm already giving up most of my privacy in the general context when using an off-the-shelf cellphone (in the sense that I have no idea how much data leak my daily cell phone use causes and I'm fine with it since I have no time to implement a personal data safety plan).
If I wanted privacy I would stop using technology altogether. I just want things that a) work with b) minimal financial risk.
"when most of what makes Linux special (respect for the user) has been stripped away."
Sorry, for me it's the "Linux the technology stack", that make it special, not the "Linux the philosophy".
"please don't sell your souls and the future of software technology for ease of use"
For me personally, 'ease of use' is the single most important optimization parameter when choosing technology. Although, in my definition, this encompasses things not only directly related to daily use, but include license cost, security and data loss prevention. The most important thing I care very much for is retaining copy right to my own data.
Why 'ease of use'? Because the only thing that truly constrains me in this world, is time. As in, how long I have to live, and how much effort I need to reach my goals. When put in this context, I don't care of the philosophical implications of the way I solve problems and implement things - I just want them done.
I.e. if the product does what I want, I don't really care of the philosophy. Perhaps I have too much faith in market forces and jurisdiction prohibiting monopoly but I fail to see much personal benefit in an all encompassing "platform philosophy" as to me, technology platforms should focus on solving real life problems.
"please don't sell your souls"
I don't pour my soul into the technology platform I use. I pour my soul on the design itself - the implementation on the platform is just the implementation of the design that could very well live in an abstract turing machine. Although the implementation running in live hardware is much, much more fun (and exposes the bugs).
Re: Ubuntu on Windows
#748Earlier quoted context omitted.
HN had a huge influx of developers who predominately (or only) work on the Microsoft platform, and it has been readily apparent in the stories that rise to the top, and the dominant reactions (e.g. cynical takes are quickly transparent. Exaggerated "this changes everything!" comments rise to the top). This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it does heavily slant the coverage and slant of the conversation. And as you…
> Soon they incorporated an expensive licensing program that third party apps had to use to interoperate with MSN Messenger, endlessly doing technical fixes to block third party access. I remember this clearly as if it was yesterday, because I tried and failed to build a Messenger-compatible client. They defended exclusive access to the API fiercely. Their attitude seems so petty now in retrospect.
You take risks and bets in life and business. Use the tools that give you the greatest flexibility and build a robust business. In this case, these announcements increase that flexibility.
While everyone here keeps complaining and debating Embrace/Extend/Extinguish, someone is embracing the changes and out-executing them. I know which I'd rather be.
Re: Ubuntu on Windows
#749Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Apple is just as proprietary, commercial and anti-competitive as Microsoft here." The big difference is that Apple actually doesn't f k their users in the ass. People always complain how Apple products are so expensive etc. but you know that's how they make money and they actually invest in to the privacy and security of their users (good example: the FBI case) I will happily keep on paying high price for the Apple…
>I will happily keep on paying high price for the Apple products in the future too as long as all of my personal data is not being broadcasted Yeah I'm sure all those celebs that had all their nude photos stolen from icloud would totally agree that Apple takes great care with personal data. Are you trying to justify needlessly spending 600$ on a phone every year? That's your prerogative, you don't have to convince st…
All systems have had and still have security flaws. There is a world of difference between having a unknown vulnerability (which affects and will affect all platforms) and intentionally spying on users and stealing their information.
Re: Ubuntu on Windows
#750While I encourage people to embrace open source tools and libraries as much as possible, I also would like to issue a word of caution on feeling too comfortable targeting a proprietary environment such as Windows. Some people have compared Mac OS X and Windows because of their proprietary nature, but one key difference is that you don't run Mac OS X as a server operating system or on the cloud. While many people deve…
(...)one key difference is that you don't run Mac OS X as a server operating system or on the cloud. http://www.apple.com/osx/server/ It's actually a pretty decent server environment.