731–740 of 925 posts
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I'm not completely convinced that "ADHD" isn't just the natural state of kids who are bored most of the time.
I'm not sure if you have seen a kid with genuine bad ADHD then. Absolutely nothing will hold their attention.
the SAT is an IQ test, btw. who would have thought that could lead to better results in cognitive fields? shocked. shocked! Now that there is some grudgin recognition of this idea, it might do to remind people that high SAT scores on Verbal are correlated, and salient in non STEM subjects. and that there is no known way to increase scores significantly, neither from early intervention nor sustained practice. And, dep…
> And, depressingly from an egalitarian perspective, there is a strong genetic correlation. No, there isn't. Hope that helps your mood!
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5985927/
Intelligence — the ability to learn, reason and solve problems — is at the forefront of behavioural genetic research. Intelligence is highly heritable and predicts important educational, occupational and health outcomes better than any other trait. Recent genome-wide association studies have successfully identified inherited genome sequence differences that account for 20% of the 50% heritability of intelligence. These findings open new avenues for research into the causes and consequences of intelligence using genome-wide polygenic scores that aggregate the effects of thousands of genetic variants. In this Review, we highlight the latest innovations and insights from the genetics of intelligence and their applications and implications for science and society.
read what it says carefully: they've correlated genes to a small percentage of the heritability of intelligence. That means there is much more heritability than they have yet found a source for.
Life is an intelligence test. During the school years, differences in intelligence are largely the reason why some children master the curriculum more readily than other children. Differences in school performance predominantly inform prospects for further education, which in turn lead to social and economic opportunities such as occupation and income. In the world of work, intelligence matters beyond educational attainment because it involves the ability to adapt to novel challenges and tasks that describe the different levels of complexity of occupations. Intelligence also spills over into many aspects of everyday life such as the selection of romantic partners and choices about health care1. This is why intelligence — often called general cognitive ability2 — predicts educational outcomes3, occupational outcomes4,5 and health outcomes6 better than any other trait. It is also the most stable psychological trait, with a Pearson correlation coefficient of 0.54 from age 11 years to age 90 years7. Box 1 describes what intelligence is and how it is assessed.
see also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream_Science_on_Intellig...
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The problem is that just like students, teachers are not all created equal. My 3rd grade teacher wanted to fail me for “discipline” problems. In reality, she simply didn’t like me; I had no discipline complaints in other years. I had undiagnosed ADHD and was gifted. She did not know how to deal with that, and actively disliked me. Activist teachers are also a thing.
I'm not completely convinced that "ADHD" isn't just the natural state of kids who are bored most of the time.
Sounds like something my Gen X dad, who put zero effort into helping me succeed, would tell me as I failed my way through all school with zero direction or ambition and convinced I wasn't capable of anything useful.
I won't claim more people probably think they have ADHD than actually do, and being bored disproportionately more than most in most situations is absolutely one of the symptoms, but it's a wildly incomplete trivialization of a set of debilitating difficulties that can/do carry long into adulthood. and is heritable.
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I'm not sure if you have seen a kid with genuine bad ADHD then. Absolutely nothing will hold their attention.
I'm not certain I have either, but I'm also skeptical of blanket statements. Nothing, really, nothing? Do they have no imagination then? No value, no curiosity? ...or are these just difficult kids to manage in a room full of kids...?
The opposite, but it doesn't mean the attention is held.
> ...or are these just difficult kids to manage in a room full of kids...?
If you remove "just", "to", and "of kids" then yes.
People—kids and adults—with severe ADHD struggle to manage in all sorts of rooms that others struggle dramatically less in, if they're undiagnosed and have no resources for dealing with it.
I'm in the SF bay area w/ middle school and high school age kids. Between San Jose and San Francisco, 15%-30% of kids are in private school (it's 30% in SF where the public schools are extra dysfunctional). That's far above the California statewide average of 8% in private school. Among our peers, somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 of kids are doing advanced math outside of school, typically either Russian School of Math…
Afaik China has widely carried out this same experiment to basically the same effect, across multiple disciplines. It's the push for so-called "happy education", which involves the relaxation of exam standards inside public schools, and has led to more after-school tutoring to make up the gaps, for families who can afford it. Lowering the common standards simply doesn't really work when there just aren't as many seats in universities as there are people who want to attend them.
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> And, depressingly from an egalitarian perspective, there is a strong genetic correlation. No, there isn't. Hope that helps your mood!
saying things doesn't make them true, but studying them informs what you should think and say. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5985927/ Intelligence — the ability to learn, reason and solve problems — is at the forefront of behavioural genetic research. Intelligence is highly heritable and predicts important educational, occupational and health outcomes better than any other trait. Recent genome-wide associa…
I want to add: I put as much effort into my original comment disagreeing with your claim as you put into your casual assertion that some people are genetically inferior to others. I feel comfortable with how this discussion has played out.
I used to teach high school math. There was a big push for doing everything digitally. And admittedly, for some topics the use of technology in the classroom or at home can really be a benefit, for instance visualizations or interactive exercises. But having a digital device in class was the number one cause of distraction every time. For a lot of things, good old blackboards are just fine as are pen + paper exercise…
It’s definitely actively bad to involve a device in the vast majority of education. And, it’s a purely selfish thing by tech companies to insert themselves into education. A student should not see a computer until college or vocational school unless they are taking e.g a high school programming or electronics class.
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saying things doesn't make them true, but studying them informs what you should think and say. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5985927/ Intelligence — the ability to learn, reason and solve problems — is at the forefront of behavioural genetic research. Intelligence is highly heritable and predicts important educational, occupational and health outcomes better than any other trait. Recent genome-wide associa…
I don't even have to argue with your cite (and I'm not a Plomin fan), since the numbers he's giving drastically slash heritability estimates from just a few years prior. If we were having this discussion 5 years ago, the claim would be that intelligence is 80% heritable. Now the foremost academic proponent of hereditarianism arguably concedes it could be as low as 20%. Molecular genetics numbers put it lower, in the…
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I don't even have to argue with your cite (and I'm not a Plomin fan), since the numbers he's giving drastically slash heritability estimates from just a few years prior. If we were having this discussion 5 years ago, the claim would be that intelligence is 80% heritable. Now the foremost academic proponent of hereditarianism arguably concedes it could be as low as 20%. Molecular genetics numbers put it lower, in the…
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> identify and weed out the worse teachers By and large, everyone knows. Data might be useful to tell you "hey that longtime great teacher approaching retirement has checked out early" or "the new hire who was struggling last semester has turned the corner" but it's no secret in a school building which teacher everyone hates and which one everyone loves. If you woke up tomorrow and discovered you were an elementary s…
Most teachers have strong union protections. It’s nearly impossible to fire one. Many districts now have a temporary period where they can be removed much easier. Once they have tenure it’s really difficult.