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Framework Laptop 13 Pro

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Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#731

Post by awongh »

akdev1l wrote: post #678
bigyabai wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a whole section on touchscreen annoyances from the Linux Surface project Taking a quick look, all of the things they list are basically reiterating what I've already said vis-a-vis Wayland: You should make sure that you are running a Wayland desktop session [...] It is important, that your applications run on Wayland as well.

> The driver can only provide a set of input coordinates to the applications. By default, the system will behave as if you've clicked at the point of a single touch, or mouse-button dragged when you single-finger drag. Yeah no. All of this depends on everything up to the application. A gtk2 application will have no support for anything. A GTK3 application running on xwayland will have poorer support as well. And anyw…

This is helpful :)

To go back to the app-by-app comment, I do know that there are like ubuntu tablet and touch setups.

Are there any browsers already setup to be more touch native, or specific browser builds that are more touch native already?

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#732

Post by mixmastamyk »

klooney wrote: post #549
nrp wrote: post #91

I’m happy to answer questions folks have around the product (later today).

What's the sleep situation? I have an ancient Dell with S3, which is totally fine, and a Mac for work, which is fine, but the modern standby situation, as summarized by people who are mad about it, sounds bad.

There’s hope. My 12th gen intel still supports sleep, while the AMD doesn’t. Need to use Linux to access it I think. Haven’t confirmed that on latest hardware however.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#733

Post by bigyabai »

awongh wrote: post #731
akdev1l wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The driver can only provide a set of input coordinates to the applications. By default, the system will behave as if you've clicked at the point of a single touch, or mouse-button dragged when you single-finger drag. Yeah no. All of this depends on everything up to the application. A gtk2 application will have no support for anything. A GTK3 application running on xwayland will have poorer support as well. And anyw…

This is helpful :) To go back to the app-by-app comment, I do know that there are like ubuntu tablet and touch setups. Are there any browsers already setup to be more touch native, or specific browser builds that are more touch native already?

Yup, GNOME Web: https://apps.gnome.org/Epiphany/

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#734

Post by buu700 »

rjh29 wrote: post #729
buu700 wrote: post #719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand your pitch. Most of those are features, not bugs. Why would I give up all of that plus first-class Linux support just to save checks notes 0.35mm in thickness?

"Upgradability and repairability are really nice features, but the machine still needs to otherwise be an upgrade over the one it's replacing." You seemed like upgradability and repairability are secondary things to you, whereas the framework makes them its primary asset. It's unlikely the Framework Pro will ever be an "upgrade" over the MacBook in other areas. Comparing it to the MacBook completely skims over its mo…

Well that's also true, but "really nice features" still means the opposite of "terrible anti-features". All else being equal, I don't not want those things.

The more important part is first-class Linux support. From my perspective, macOS is basically discount Linux; it's tolerable, but only if the gulf between a MacBook and the next best hardware is wide enough to justify it.

Assuming the basics hold up well, upgradability and repairability likely push Framework Pro over the edge for me from merely "close enough" to "materially superior" on balance. I'd still be interested if it didn't have those features, but I'd also look more closely at alternatives and be less willing to pay a premium over the cost of an equivalently-specced MBP.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#736

Post by EricRiese »

It's so ironic. I've had several Thinkpads over the years and I've repaired or upgraded every one of them, from RAM, SSDs, an upgraded screen, and a new fan/heatsink assembly. I have a first generation Framework 13 and I've yet to upgrade it. And by now this new Pro model has an upgrade for every component. If it weren't for crazy prices, I'd just buy a whole new laptop.

At least I have the option of that CoolerMaster case. But maybe it'd be best to just sell the whole thing.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#737

Post by bigyabai »

akdev1l wrote: post #678
bigyabai wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a whole section on touchscreen annoyances from the Linux Surface project Taking a quick look, all of the things they list are basically reiterating what I've already said vis-a-vis Wayland: You should make sure that you are running a Wayland desktop session [...] It is important, that your applications run on Wayland as well.

> The driver can only provide a set of input coordinates to the applications. By default, the system will behave as if you've clicked at the point of a single touch, or mouse-button dragged when you single-finger drag. Yeah no. All of this depends on everything up to the application. A gtk2 application will have no support for anything. A GTK3 application running on xwayland will have poorer support as well. And anyw…

I remember TouchEgg too, I did use x11 for a few years. The experience back then was not comparable to an iPad, but the modern Wayland session is.

If you're going to fight over edge-case consistency, then at least be consistent. People build iPad apps with horrible custom widgets that block context menus too. They run "real" software in QEMU and iTerm that truly has no support for any of their default HIDs. Linux has more software to support, by nature it's going to have the larger number of inconsistent experiences. I don't think that's a fair basis of comparison, though.

Strictly speaking, I think KDE and GNOME's Wayland stacks are the closest equivalent to the Quartz Compositor on the market. I don't really know any other stack that comes close.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#738

Post by [deleted] »

hgo wrote: post #675

I saw the announcement video and I'm so relieved to hear actual honest language! - Actually naming your inspiration as Apple - Saying that thanks to machined body, the keyboard is actually slightly better. No overstatement, just an honest detail - No: "This is our best laptop yet" (As if managing to not making it worse is something to be proud of) - To the point, fast paced, clear communication - Honestly stating tha…

[deleted]

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#739

Post by setr »

bfivyvysj wrote: post #689
jszymborski wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a huge extra lift that they didn't have to do. It's sorta essential imo if they want to make good on their one value-prop: repairability and the good will that comes with it. If they start releasing a tonne of SKUs with a million different parts, they'll inevitably have to sunset parts at a clip that'll completely make useless their repairability claims. I am a happy Framework laptop owner, but I paid a prem…

Weird to frame that as "their one value prop" as if the quality of their offering in general is just plain better. It comes at a premium thats my only gripe with it.

If it’s their only value proposition, then every other element is just plain worse. This is the only aspect that makes them not worthless.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#740

Post by muyuu »

dtj1123 wrote: post #710
muyuu wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

battery life for Linux is not some grand project, it's just support and setup of existing kernel drivers, typically at the distro level - which is why it's already there for some setups https://xcancel.com/dhh/status/2046677012878708834 he mentioned good numbers before, but of course you may want to wait for reviews

This is essentially why I'm confused. All he's doing is setting up pre-existing drivers, any chimp with access to ChatGPT can do that. I don't see that he's bringing anything noteworthy to the table, but I've repeatedly heard people talk as though he's going to bring better battery life to Linux through omarchy.

merit doesn't matter

people want to get laptops that work well and have good battery life, whether this was easy or hard to achieve means naught

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