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All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

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Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#731

Post by eru »

heavyset_go wrote: post #714
bko wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that pretty much no phones have a replaceable battery says something. And it doesn't mean that all manufacturers are somehow colluding with each. The market is very competitive and pretty much every manufacturer decided the trade offs are not worth the benefit. If Samsung or Xiaomi or Google could sell you a better phone with a replaceable battery, they would. But everyone came to the conclusion that the tra…

> If it's such a superior product that people want despite the tradeoffs, why don't they just fund a company to create such a phone? Why doesn't anyone? Because legislation is direct and gives better results to consumers. Thank god the EU standardized on USB-C. There's no reason to jump through extra hoops and rely on the whims of investors to do something good for the people.

What does any deity have to do with it? Btw, has anyone done a post mortem analysis of that mandate? I wonder if it delivered what it promised. I doubt it:

All they saved consumers from is buying a 5 dollar replacement cable.

The EU certainly hasn't done such an assessment yet.

The predicted savings of a quarter billion Euro come mostly from unbundling chargers, which they could have forced down customers throats without also making technical mandates about how customers are allowed to charge.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#732

Post by eru »

bigfishrunning wrote: post #718
bko wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that pretty much no phones have a replaceable battery says something. And it doesn't mean that all manufacturers are somehow colluding with each. The market is very competitive and pretty much every manufacturer decided the trade offs are not worth the benefit. If Samsung or Xiaomi or Google could sell you a better phone with a replaceable battery, they would. But everyone came to the conclusion that the tra…

Because people will buy that phone and keep it much longer. When phones had replaceable batteries, they needed replaced after a couple of years because they were terrible. I'm now on a several year old pixel phone that I'm happy with, but eventually the battery will wear out and I'll have to replace it. Google likes it that way.

Battery tech has gotten a lot better every year over the last hundred years.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#733

Post by doctorpangloss »

chrisjj wrote: post #649
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

> I can use 40+ year old cameras Apple winces.

user replaceable batteries and blue bubbles are the 2 greatest threats to Apple

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#734

Post by thrownthatway »

heavyset_go wrote: post #714
bko wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that pretty much no phones have a replaceable battery says something. And it doesn't mean that all manufacturers are somehow colluding with each. The market is very competitive and pretty much every manufacturer decided the trade offs are not worth the benefit. If Samsung or Xiaomi or Google could sell you a better phone with a replaceable battery, they would. But everyone came to the conclusion that the tra…

> If it's such a superior product that people want despite the tradeoffs, why don't they just fund a company to create such a phone? Why doesn't anyone? Because legislation is direct and gives better results to consumers. Thank god the EU standardized on USB-C. There's no reason to jump through extra hoops and rely on the whims of investors to do something good for the people.

[flagged]

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#735

Post by 8note »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #725
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

I don't think this is where peak battery tech ends up. At current capacities, batteries are becoming genuinely dangerous, and faster charging only amplifies the risk. Charging high-capacity cells outside a temperature-controlled charger is risky, and even reputable chargers shouldn't be left unattended — many workplaces ban it outright (it only takes one fire to make that policy). Phone batteries are the worst of it:…

> e.g a phone with a glued battery can have 5000mAh but the same phone with a more durable battery connector can only be 4500mAh.

alternatively, i can trade more bulk for more battery. if its got a connector, why cant i put a bigger batter in the slot that sticks out?

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#736

Post by thrownthatway »

eru wrote: post #731
heavyset_go wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it's such a superior product that people want despite the tradeoffs, why don't they just fund a company to create such a phone? Why doesn't anyone? Because legislation is direct and gives better results to consumers. Thank god the EU standardized on USB-C. There's no reason to jump through extra hoops and rely on the whims of investors to do something good for the people.

What does any deity have to do with it? Btw, has anyone done a post mortem analysis of that mandate? I wonder if it delivered what it promised. I doubt it: All they saved consumers from is buying a 5 dollar replacement cable. The EU certainly hasn't done such an assessment yet. The predicted savings of a quarter billion Euro come mostly from unbundling chargers, which they could have forced down customers throats wit…

Not even that.

Consumers still need to buy replacement cables, because they break.

And the USB-C cable end connector is a fragile piece of shit designed by committee and forced upon everyone buy another committee, neither of which must’ve had a single mechanic engineer even once walk passed their bike shed.

Future historians will do a postmortem on the EU and discover the USB-C enforcement act as an inflection point that marked the downer trend to the EU’s eventual collapse, and the reclamation of its land and people to the great nation of Russia, where it always belonged.

Or some other equally as dreadful outcome befitting the UBS-C Bike Shed & Enforcement Committee formerly know as the European Union.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#737

Post by cogman10 »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #725
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

I don't think this is where peak battery tech ends up. At current capacities, batteries are becoming genuinely dangerous, and faster charging only amplifies the risk. Charging high-capacity cells outside a temperature-controlled charger is risky, and even reputable chargers shouldn't be left unattended — many workplaces ban it outright (it only takes one fire to make that policy). Phone batteries are the worst of it:…

The main thing that makes all this hard to do is the form factor.

Give these phone batteries a standard geometry and interface and pretty much all these problems immediately go away. 3 prongs on the battery (ground, positive, data). A standard protocol so the battery can communicate things like SOC or acceptable charge rate with the charger. And viola, you are off to the races.

Yes, this will mean manufacturers will have a hard limit on how thin they can make their phones and a constraint on what designs they can employ.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#738

Post by usef- »

chrisjj wrote: post #649
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

> I can use 40+ year old cameras Apple winces.

Software security updates seem to be the limit to phone life, not batteries (the latter of which I've had replaced at Apple stores). Apple still seems to have the longest support for security updates.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#740

Post by BenFranklin100 »

heavyset_go wrote: post #714
bko wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that pretty much no phones have a replaceable battery says something. And it doesn't mean that all manufacturers are somehow colluding with each. The market is very competitive and pretty much every manufacturer decided the trade offs are not worth the benefit. If Samsung or Xiaomi or Google could sell you a better phone with a replaceable battery, they would. But everyone came to the conclusion that the tra…

> If it's such a superior product that people want despite the tradeoffs, why don't they just fund a company to create such a phone? Why doesn't anyone? Because legislation is direct and gives better results to consumers. Thank god the EU standardized on USB-C. There's no reason to jump through extra hoops and rely on the whims of investors to do something good for the people.

With that attitude, we’d still be using D-sub connectors.
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