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Banned in California

bannedincalifornia.org

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Re: Banned in California

#731

Post by markemer »

deaux wrote: post #714
kardianos wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are the incorrect choices. You CAN actually do these processes, and still keep the environment clean. I believe in procedural symmetry: if you ACTUALLY care about people and the environment, then you wouldn't let other poorer do these thing. The USA being richer, can afford to do it right and safer, not through regulation, but through process. There is a difference. So what would you do if you ACTUALLY cared ab…

> But people don't actually care about the environment. They care about looking like they care about the environment, and sending industrial processes somewhere else. There is a difference. This is about as true as saying "But people don't care about child sexual abuse". Sure, those partying with Epstein don't. Plenty of people do care and indeed are today making sacrifices that align with this. Including lowering li…

Also Environmental regulations are like vaccines. They're victims of their own success. In the late 1960s early 1970s, before the EPA, the air and water in the US was a disaster. The EPA documented it:

https://www.businessinsider.com/what-us-cities-looked-like-b...

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/542493

Re: Banned in California

#732

Post by markemer »

Fischgericht wrote: post #604
flakiness wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Europe-like US states like California" This statement makes me smile. Although I see where this comes from...

I'm not judging here. From my experiences in California I would say that the general mindset and cultural approach to life is comparable to that of south-western Europe. In part that's simply because while looking different, the general environment is fostering respecting nature, giving room for arts and creative and having an open mind. (This example of course is coming from a past world where you could safely trave…

Yeah as a New Yorker and someone that's lived in the Boston to Washington megalopolis basically my whole life, a lot of Europe feels very familiar. I felt right at home in Lisbon.

Re: Banned in California

#733

Post by tonymet »

epistasis wrote: post #711
tonymet wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a republic .

It's a republic and a democracy, but every person I've heard say "it's a republic" erroneously believes that the US is not a democracy, and that republics can't be a democracy, because somebody told them that once and they liked the sound of it without ever checking it. So, who's mincing words?

[flagged]

Re: Banned in California

#734

Post by jandrewrogers »

Merovius wrote: post #720
jandrewrogers wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per NOAA and USGS, ~20 million liters of crude oil naturally seeps into that part of the California ocean each year. That is more crude oil each year than the worst oil spill in California history[0]. You are projecting your biases. There was no "drilling is good for the environment" narrative. I was recounting an interesting fact about the environment there. Many of these seeps are under considerable pressure as the…

> There was no "drilling is good for the environment" narrative. … > Oil drilling actually made the water cleaner.

For it to be a "narrative", there would need to be an additional claim that this specific case and context, which is factual, generalizes to most unrelated cases. That is not in evidence. Thinking that this was an attempt to create a narrative is a failure of reading comprehension.

This insistence that acknowledgement of facts has an ideological narrative is a pernicious strain of anti-science thinking.

Re: Banned in California

#735

Post by parineum »

0xffff2 wrote: post #558
parineum wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, the ubiquity of backup cameras in cars is because it is a requirement in CA.

This is not correct. The backup camera requirement comes from a NHTSA (i.e. Federal) regulation.

You are correct. I must have mixed that up with something else! Thanks for the correction.

Re: Banned in California

#736

Post by yndoendo »

bilbo0s wrote: post #568
yndoendo wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big companies already handle manufacturing in other states. Often in states that have the worst education systems and quality of living. It is frequently done to reduce the cost of labor. Manufacturing jobs are also some of the most unstable because big companies will shop around for tax breaks. Once they find a political sucker ... they build a new plant and close the old one which wrecks havoc on the local economy.…

Doesn't that just make California's case for them though? I mean if these jobs are so bad, isn't it good that California is trying to not have them in its own municipalities? The way you laid it out, shouldn't everyone be trying not to have those jobs?

Quality of a job matters. So does proper regulation so the job is not harmful to the worker or community or environment. Those others state politicians that welcome those jobs without proper regulation are willing to ignore the health and well-being of their neighbors.

Manufacturing jobs are not bad. The environment and de-regulation makes them bad.

To me a job must have a living wage tied to it and it must be in an environment that doesn't poison the employee, community, and nature.

Others have low standards like calling USA McDonald's a job when they don't even pay enough to live off of. EU McDonald's is forced to pay a living wage because of proper regulations.

Re: Banned in California

#737

Post by coryrc »

Qwertious wrote: post #716
coryrc wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The space heating is the cooling system.

So's a turbine. Sometimes people don't want heating, but you still need to cool down the plant. And while I'm sure the nuclear plant will have a great emergency stop button (the type where paying $1k per press is absolute peanuts), the systems used daily to turn the heat up/down will either need a buffer, or have a delay on taking the heat up/down. That'll take up space. Remind me why power lines aren't an option?

Manhattan is an island. It's surrounded by cooling fluid.

> Sometimes people don't want heating, but you still need to cool down the plant.

You can turn it down or off.

> Remind me why power lines aren't an option?

It's more economical not to waste half the plant's power output. 1 GW of heat comes out the reactor, 50% becomes electricity (with heat pumps you can make that 2x heating) and 50% is low-grade heat sufficient for space heating. You get 1/3 more heating for the same cost.

Re: Banned in California

#739

Post by scottyah »

standardUser wrote: post #707
scottyah wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now the regulatory industry is fighting to destroy productive society in the pursuit of profit. The value-added is fairly stagnant, but the costs have been growing dramatically.

Ebb and flow. Would you prefer only ebb, when that ebb was decimating the health of millions of working people? Maybe some flow is justified and necessary.

I just prefer shorter, less dramatic cycles. Overregulation also increases accidents, when there's more incentive to ignore them

Re: Banned in California

#740

Post by silexia »

Washington is really bad too for doing anything. We are getting more issues at the federal level too. I just want to crush some rock and I have to get a mine ID and a mine permit and a ton of other stuff.
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