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EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

environment.ec.europa.eu

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Re: EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

#731

Post by rsynnott »

csense wrote: post #511

I don't like destruction of perfectly usable items, and I think it's terrible that some brands destroy unsold $40 shirts to protect their branding and pricing power, rather than selling them for $20 or giving them away to the poor. But I like less the implications for private property ownership of this sort of regulation. If I own an item I should be able to destroy it if I want; the government shouldn't be able to t…

> If I own an item I should be able to destroy it if I want; the government shouldn't be able to tell me "no."

Are you, personally, a large textile company? If not, then you have no need to worry; see the article. If you are, then argh a textile company has become sentient.

Re: EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

#732

Post by panick21 »

tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #555
panick21 wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how absurdly efficient shipping stuff in container ships is, I don't believe its actually worse. Specially if the company can just save money by being slightly more conservative in terms of how much they manufacture in the first place.

Sure, let's conveniently not count the horrifically-polluting trucks in to distribute them across the interior. You're acting like companies enjoy flushing money down the toilet by making extra stuff. They are already making what they believe are the optimal number of products they believe they can sell. You think EU bureaucrats know their business better than they do?

And other cloths they could buy don't use trucks?

The point is increasing the cost of over-production. Its not about the EU knowing better, but imposing a higher price for waste. Not sure how you are confused about that.

Re: EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

#733

Post by rsynnott »

jazz9k wrote: post #516
lores wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you own an item you want to destroy, no problem. If a company owns an item it want to destroy, it can't anymore. The conflation of persons and corporations has been responsible for an enormous amount of evil, and it's time to start distinguish the two again.

A company isn't AI or a bot. It's essentially a group of people. It should have the same rights as an individual when it comes to private property.

If it's an unlimited partnership or something, _maybe_. Approximately no companies implicated are, though; they're typically limited liability companies of some sort. A limited liability company demanding human rights feels a bit like having your cake and eating it.

Re: EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

#734

Post by rsynnott »

jadenPete wrote: post #252

I think what bugs me about EU legislation like this is how micro-targeted it is. Why apparel specifically? If waste and a disregard for the finite-ness of natural resources is the problem, why not impose a blanket, Pigovian-style tax on all extracted resources? I got the same feeling when they mandated USB-C on Apple devices. If the problem of waste were tackled categorically, then the state wouldn’t need to get invo…

> I think what bugs me about EU legislation like this is how micro-targeted it is. Why apparel specifically? If waste and a disregard for the finite-ness of natural resources is the problem, why not impose a blanket, Pigovian-style tax on all extracted resources?

"Don't attempt to in any way address the problem unless you're willing to go for an absolute maximalist solution" is a pretty weird stance.

Re: EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

#735

Post by rsynnott »

frm88 wrote: post #628
Mordisquitos wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have an odd perception of what constitutes "micro-targetting". Why apparel specifically ? Because apparel is specifically the consumer industry where enormous quantities of unsold product are intentionally destroyed to then be replaced in the market by newly made equivalent articles. Why was USB-C mandated specifically on Apple devices? Well here's the thing: it wasn't . It was mandated on smartphones in general…

Slight correction: it wasn't even for smartphones alone, it was for portable devices in general [0]. As a consequence, all ebook devices like Kindle etc, vapes and other devices had to switch from Micro-USB to USB-C. [0] https://commission.europa.eu/news-and-media/news/eu-common-c...

> As a consequence, all ebook devices like Kindle etc, vapes and other devices had to switch from Micro-USB to USB-C.

Finally, I can charge my book and my cigarette with one cable!

(This statement would have been extremely confusing in the 90s.)

Re: EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

#736

Post by rsynnott »

throwaway198846 wrote: post #2

Can they ship it outside the EU and then destroy it? What happens if truly nobody wants those clothes? Why not just put a carbon tax per weight?

This is also a restricted activity: https://environment.ec.europa.eu/topics/waste-and-recycling/...

At least for polyester, etc. As the rule is worded today maybe you'd get away with it for cotton? But the rule can always be changed.

Re: EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

#737

Post by [deleted] »

em-bee wrote: post #545
WalterBright wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preventing imports will force them to pay the higher prices for the local stuff. Maybe it's better to let them decide what they want to buy.

that's how you protect your local economy. that's pretty normal everywhere. in europe people go on strike if imports threaten their livelyhood. dumping cheap clothing on an economy that can't handle it is not really helping. it's going to make the local stuff even more expensive because there is less demand for it. local development simply does not happen if outside products are allowed to dominate. if we were talkin…

[deleted]

Re: EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

#738

Post by kwanbix »

em-bee wrote: post #700
WalterBright wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I know this practice is commonplace. What it does is "protect" a specific industry, but that results in less choice for consumers and higher prices. Protectionism has value when applied to strategic industries, like chip making, that you cannot afford to have cut off. Making local garments is not a strategic industry. P.S. Every businessman believes in the free market for everyone except his own business, which…

this is not about protecting businesses. this is about providing jobs for locals. many african countries are struggling with that. providing an income for everyone is important. keeping everyone satisfied is too. not to mention not loosing your cultural identity. and if the clothing industry is able to provide jobs by keeping cheap low quality products out of the country, why would that be bad? clothing is not the bi…

We have had that in Argentina for 40 years. The result? One of the most expensive countries to live in the world. The PS5 you can buy for 500 dollars in USA? it is 1000 here in Argentina. The Samsung Galaxy you pay 800 in USA? It is 1600 in Argentina. The Levi jean you pay 100? It is 250 in Argentina. Or, if you want to pay the same price for a jean, you can, but the quality will be 1/3 of the one you can buy in USA/EU.

Re: EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

#739

Post by okanat »

altern8 wrote: post #449

The EU has to get its hand into every aspect of everyone's life. From the material the straw I drink from is made, to what port companies can use for charging, to what companies can do with their own products. I don't get why European nations always have to turn into totalitarian fascist dictatorships.

Which of the current players is closer to being a fascist dictatorship: US, China or EU?

Fascism loves unregulated, consolidated conglomerates.

Re: EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

#740

Post by brightbeige »

wackget wrote: post #229
motbus3 wrote: post #204

I'm reading the comments and I get confused. I kinda think this is a good idea and it is not like the government is purely making it a 3rd party problem only. This might make production more complicated for a while, but nowadays it is much easier to predict demand and produce quicker in smaller batches. In the 90s you might need change a whole factory setting for every single piece of fabric but nowadays it is that m…

I think some people here on Hacker News are semi-deluded free market fundamentalists who believe they're going to be future billionaires, so they naturally gravitate towards protecting the rights of big business to do whatever it wants, even if it hurts people and the planet. The only people who think that destroying useful items is a good idea are those who would stand to lose money from it; either by having to pay…

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." - (probably not) John Steinbeck

I guess with inflation we can update the quote to “temporarily embarrassed billionaires”

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