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The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

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Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#731

Post by int_19h »

jonnybgood wrote: post #561
caseysoftware wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So it was never about security at all then, was it? Never was. I flew every other week prior to covid and haven't once been through the scanners. For the first ~6 years, I opted out and got pat down over and over again. Then I realized I could even skip that. Now at the checkpoint, I stand at the metal detector. When they wave me to the scanner, I say "I can't raise my arms over my head." They wave me through the m…

You sound insufferable. Why do they need to be a moron? As you state, designed as a jobs program. So, these workers are low paying government employees who likely have trouble attaining a job or maintaining high job security. You likely live a far more privileged life than these workers. You think they want to do this job? And you call them a moron for simply attempting to do their job?

Well, their job is literally to harass people, and they knew that getting hired.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#732

Post by int_19h »

seg_lol wrote: post #388
zoklet-enjoyer wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying to TSA and other government representatives is patriotic

This is a scam that the GOP has convinced many of, that taking from the government commons is the right thing to do. But the GOP is the embodiment of a low trust society. I'd rather live in a high trust society.

I'd also rather live in a high trust society, but that's impossible with the government that we have (and it's not just Trump, although he has certainly turned our slow creep towards authoritarianism into a speedrun).

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#733

Post by kube-system »

jjk166 wrote: post #715
kube-system wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know. I was simply disputing the idea that ~600+ mile flights are cheaper than driving. They only are in very specific circumstances.

I would not describe travelling alone as "very specific circumstances." It is extremely common. 70% of all car trips are solo, and the average number of occupants for all car trips is 1.5. That you can get more bang for your buck driving if you have enough passengers and luggage doesn't change the fact plenty of people don't.

You are entirely right, because 98%+ trips in a car are commutes or errands that average 6 miles in distance.

But, that is not the topic of conversation above -- we were talking about trips 600+ miles in distance. These are almost exclusively not commutes.

Averages don't necessarily describe your whole data set. Just like how the average person has around 1 testicle, this data is also multimodal :) ... People commute alone, but they go on vacation with friends/family.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#734

Post by fc417fc802 »

0x457 wrote: post #683
fc417fc802 wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather you lack perspective on the wider world. It is not uncommon to have an "unofficial" living situation and work under the table. In that scenario which documents would have your name and address on it? Will the DMV accept a purchase order from Amazon? Get real.

Even when I worked under the table and was out of status, I always had enough documents to get Real ID (but couldn't due to status). For context, at one point I couldn't even get AB60 license in California because I didn't have a single photo ID that isn't expired, and you just need some photo id and pulse to get AB60. > Will the DMV accept a purchase order from Amazon? DMV accepted my marriage license and bank state…

That's an interesting point about the bank statement. However you still need a second document IIUC. And to even open an account in the first place won't you need similar documentation? I've never tried opening one while in that position - I've always just brought my passport in with me while cursing KYC laws.

So assuming you already have a regular driver's license and a bank account this would make the requirement to fly 1. verify address with bank 2. figure out an additional piece of documentation 3. pay fee for "real" ID 4. wait a while.

How does that improve security? Why do I need any ID at all in the first place? If the concern is weapons or explosives then just search for those ... which they already do.

Another thought occurs to me. What if I grab a homeless person off the street and attempt to fly with him? So now there's an additional $45 "no ID" fee? That hardly seems reasonable. Will they even be able to verify much of anything in that scenario to begin with? (Granted that's an edge case but that doesn't mean it's okay to ignore it.)

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#735

Post by asdf_snar »

adastra22 wrote: post #268
asdf_snar wrote: post #261

I think I must be confused, but after reading many of the replies, I can't figure this out. Is the standard American perspective that one shouldn't have to show any form of identification to go through security, get on a plane, and travel anywhere within the United States? How does anyone associate your ticket to your identity?

> How does anyone associate your ticket to your identity? Why does anyone in this picture need to associate my ticket with my identity?

Just replying here in case it's more visible, but:

- what if you're on a no-fly list? wanted criminals?

- underage?

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#736

Post by asdf_snar »

wat10000 wrote: post #267
asdf_snar wrote: post #261

I think I must be confused, but after reading many of the replies, I can't figure this out. Is the standard American perspective that one shouldn't have to show any form of identification to go through security, get on a plane, and travel anywhere within the United States? How does anyone associate your ticket to your identity?

Why would there be a need to associate my ticket to my identity?

Just replying here in case it's more visible, but:

- what if you're on a no-fly list? wanted criminals?

- underage?

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#737

Post by kmoser »

sokoloff wrote: post #485
caseysoftware wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the TSA cannot force you to prove it - after all, they're not medical personnel to evaluate it and not willing to risk your injury - whether someone lies becomes irrelevant.

If they decide to follow up to make an example of you, they can easily record a video of you until you raise your arms over your head somewhere later in the airport or on the flight. You won’t have a good time proving your case.

Just because you can raise your hands over your head doesn't mean it isn't painful.

In any case, it's legal to opt-out of the scanners, so why would they care what method you use (really what language you use) to indicate you'd rather get a pat-down than go through the scanners? Either way you're complying with the law.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#738

Post by kmoser »

OneDeuxTriSeiGo wrote: post #305
jacquesm wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pacemaker, pregnancy, probably others.

Studies have all come out clean on pacemakers and mmWave. No detectable interference in the hardware or on an EKG while in a mmWave scanner. I could imagine other conditions potentially but pacemakers have been ruled a non issue for mmWave by academic studies (albeit I can understand still exercising caution despite that).

Have they done thorough, decades-long studies on millimeter-wave machines to ensure they have absolutely no long-term adverse health effects?

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#739

Post by fsckboy »

twoodfin wrote: post #473
fsckboy wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"i can't raise my arms over my head" doesn't contain the word "medically". could be religious reasons, or simply personal superstition.

Federal judges just love this kind of language lawyering.

it's legal to say "I can't raise my arms over my head". it is then prohibited to ask people about disabilities, should somebody think to inquire. I was not saying "tell this to a judge", i was telling HN that yall were making assuumptions. (assuumptions makes ass-of-you-and-you)

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#740

Post by stonogo »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #592
stonogo wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the answer is more than "zero" then the fee is harmful. Since I've been in similar positions (specifically as a contractor, where I had to front-load expenses and submit for reimbursement), it seems pretty likely to me.

Yes so we are going to optimize an entire system for this mythical “working poor” business traveler? Every contractor has to do that. That’s the price you pay for going into that business (reason #999 thet while I work in cloud consulting I work full time for consulting companies). Even as a business traveler, I have to pay my own expenses and wait for reimbursement.

I wasn't aware anyone had made the argument that this was an attempt to optimize anything. It's pretty obvious nobody's optimized anything in the TSA, ever.
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