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Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#731

Post by CGMthrowaway »

devmor wrote: post #670
CGMthrowaway wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how business works. The App Store in current form would not exist without all the collective investment that went into all of Apple's hardware, for instance. Microsoft Office: Revenue $45B Operating Costs $12B Profit $33B Operating Margin 75% Google Search Ads: Revenue $175B Operating Costs $45B Profit $130B Operating Margin 75%

> That's not how business works. The App Store in current form would not exist without all the collective investment that went into all of Apple's hardware, for instance. While technically true, this argument doesn't provide any merit to the discussion. The App Store backed purchase for the Patreon subscription would not exist at all without the creator's work and investment in creating their form of content. In the…

> The App Store backed purchase for the Patreon subscription would not exist at all without the creator's work and investment in creating their form of content.

Both parties are getting the chance to set whatever price they want. Up to the market to resolve supply/demand equilibrium

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#732

Post by okokwhatever »

Tech companies are pushing their clients step by step out of new devices, platforms, subscription services, SaaS, ... Governments are pushing citizens step by step into Tech to control and tax their lives. At the end we, as simple humans, are always in the middle.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#733

Post by bigyabai »

thewebguyd wrote: post #705
pavlov wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They must be looking at the revenue Claude Code is making on Mac and thinking “Why aren’t we getting 30% of that?” Wouldn’t be surprised if macOS starts locking down CLI tools towards an App Store model too.

> Wouldn’t be surprised if macOS starts locking down CLI tools towards an App Store model too. The day that happens is the day Apple sees a mass exodus of developers to Linux, I don't think they'd be that stupid. They enjoy enough goodwill right now as the platform of choice (vs. Windows for those that don't want to run desktop Linux), I can't imagine they'd casually just throw that away.

> I don't think they'd be that stupid.

We're talking about the company that abandoned CUDA, OpenCL and Vulkan mere moments before they were killer technologies. If Apple wanted to phase-out Homebrew, I genuinely think most of the community would nod in unison and switch to developing in UTM. Mac owners are nothing if not flexible.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#735

Post by bjt »

direwolf20 wrote: post #709
odo1242 wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apps are allowed to link to web services to offer payment as an alternative to IAPs and offer a discount for doing so, thanks to Apple v Epic.

Can they, or will they be delisted if they do that?

From the Patreon FAQ:

> Can I opt out of the App Store Fee?

> For U.S. fans, there’s still a way to avoid Apple’s fee. When signing up in the iOS app, they can choose web checkout instead of Apple’s in-app purchase system. Apple’s rules require that any paid content shown in the iOS app is also available to purchase through Apple’s in-app system.

https://support.patreon.com/hc/en-us/articles/28801582599181...

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#736

Post by kakacik »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #718
ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With freedom also comes responsibility, and some innocent people will inevitably shoot themselves in the foot. This is not a strong enough argument for putting everybody else in a cage and letting a duopoly take over virtually all of the distribution of consumer software.

Well, you have to balance it with how much you want to line the coffers of malicious actors. If you go all the way to "everyone should have the freedom to get pwned", then you are also funneling the money of innocents into the pockets of some of the worst people in the world, and that's not a great outcome just to make life more convient for some HNers. The question is about what trade-off makes sense for most people…

The thing is, apple decides this for themselves, on a product that you fully bought and privately own. It bundles the most brilliant and most incompetent clueless people into 1 group and goes for lowest denominator. No freedom of choice.

Of course thats PR argument, in reality its about distorting and manipulating the market to get the most money out of its users and bind them to their ecosystem as hard as possible to extract even more. And the amount of those same people who uncritically defend them here is still staggering. But maybe its just employees ignoring their ndas, some investors and similar folks.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#737

Post by H1Supreme »

rkagerer wrote: post #702
silvestrov wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could make the argument that Patreon isn't much more than a banking app. It just focuses on the receiver of the money than the sender. I think Apple is slowly killing apps with this policy. Everybody will slowly move to "web only" as 30% would kill their ability to compete with anybody else. This will likely be much stronger in countries where iPhones do not have the same market share as in the US.

Next up, Apple starts taking a cut of every money transfer you do with your banking app.

Isn't that exactly what this is? Except they're targeting a single app.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#738

Post by yibg »

rob74 wrote: post #412
nabla9 wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The operating cost is the maximum Apple can come up with when their accountants attribute everything they possibly can to digital sales for the sake of legal argument. R&D shouldn't really be included, and Apple uses those same tools and APIs themselves. I think the actual profit margin is closer to 90%, and Apple could maintain a 20% margin with just a 3–4% fee.

I'd say that in the case of Patreon, any fee for Apple is unjustified. Apple can justify their fee on app purchases/subscriptions in the app store, but Patreon is not an app subscription, the money goes mostly from the patrons to the people they support. Ok, Patreon takes a cut to cover their operating costs, and also make a profit (not sure how profitable they are currently), but I really can't see how Apple, who do…

No kidding. Imagine if Apple took 30% of your Venmo transfers.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#739

Post by pjmlp »

mehagar wrote: post #728
pjmlp wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do they need to install a PWA? We do mobile friendly Web UIs, that is enough. Their customes, employees, go to the respective company website, get a responsive UI for their device, done, the services require to be online anyway.

So they can potentially work offline and deliver push notifications.

Very few applications actually need push notifications, a large majority is only annoying users with upselling, or user engagement.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#740

Post by pjmlp »

layer8 wrote: post #520
pjmlp wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do they need to install a PWA? We do mobile friendly Web UIs, that is enough. Their customes, employees, go to the respective company website, get a responsive UI for their device, done, the services require to be online anyway.

Notifications.

Aka upselling and user engagement.
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