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In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

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Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#731

Post by Borg3 »

holowoodman wrote: post #724
Borg3 wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I did not thats why I asked. Water and Steel doesnt like each other. But thanks for the info.. It seems it can be done in controlled way. Now I wonder how cost effective it is :)

Well, actually, thermolysis for water occurs at 2200°C. Thermolysis of CO₂ starts at 1400°C, of CO at 3700°C. The melting point of iron is around 1500°C, similarly its oxides. So water as a product is actually more stable than CO₂, and doesn't undergo thermolysis at the relevant temperatures for smelting iron. Whereas when going the CO₂ route, there is the risk of producing relevant amounts of CO, which is not as des…

Can you provide some citation about CO2 themolysis? I found just one paper from China....

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#732

Post by buckle8017 »

lambdaone wrote: post #621
buckle8017 wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oil the west doesn't use isn't magically staying in the ground. Middle and low income countries (most notably China) increased consumption is more than offsetting reductions from high income countries.

Although it looks like bad news in the short term, China is building even more renewables than they are coal stations, with the result that the fraction of fossil power consumption in China is actually decreasing: https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-coal-power-drops-in-chi...

Your just lying with statistics.

Fraction goes down but total fossil fuel consumption is at an all time high in China.

They now use more fossil fuels than the entire western world combined.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#733

Post by DrBazza »

fundatus wrote: post #614
clarionbell wrote: post #600

Meanwhile European chemical manufacturing is collapsing under weight of record energy costs.[1][2] Most of other manufacturing is somehow tied to chemicals, you can't build things without material after all. So this will feed ongoing industrial collapse, which now affects even Germany.[3] Meanwhile, low income households are running into financial issues if they want to turn up the heat.[4] The whole process has been…

And the reason for that? Fossil fuels. Cited from one of your articles: > “Our industry continues to face difficult market dynamics and challenging energy costs, with European gas prices around three times higher than the US,” Arnaud Valenduc, business director for Ineos Inovyn, the Ineos business that makes chloromethane, says in the press release.

That quote mentions gas only. What about coal, oil, and biofuel?

Record energy costs are a thing. If solar and wind are 'free', why have European energy prices risen so much?

The real-world contra-indicators are the USA, China and pretty much any country outside the groupthink of the G20.

Whilst state interference is a factor, more tellingly they haven't slavishly followed the suicidal empathy of being 'green' and shutting down nuclear and fossil fuel power plants before a sufficient replacement was available.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#734

Post by darkwater »

eitally wrote: post #155
darkwater wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lies. I'm using solar panels since 2022, still producing same peak energy and not cleaned them once. Some companies/electricians will try to sell you a cleaning and maintenance service for ~80-100EUR/year here but it's basically throwing money.

I live in a fairly arid place (Bay Area) where it rains in winter but gets quite dry and dusty in the summer. I've had rooftop solar since 2016 and have noticed that generation decreases by as much as 8-10% when the panels are covered in summer dust.

Here it's not so dusty, but in spring there can be a ton of flying pollen and yet, our not so abundant rains (generally speaking, there are more and more stormy episodes lately once a year) are enough to clean it up.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#735

Post by m4rtink »

nandomrumber wrote: post #526
m4rtink wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, in combined cycle plants you burn the natural gas first in a gas turbine first, use the waste heat from that to boil water and run steam turbine. Then condense the steam using your district heating circuit. You can say this is 100% efficient as you make some electricity and the rest does house heating.

100% efficient assuming a perfectly spherical combined cycle gas turbine with district heating circuit operating in a vacuum.

Let say all the loses provide heating for the power plant building itself. ;-)

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#736

Post by padjo »

jahnu wrote: post #694
padjo wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas prices are high at least in part because of reduced exploitation of resources. For example here in Ireland we have stopped extracting our own gas and now import. I'm I'm favour of increased renewables, but we need to be truthful about the costs. A fully renewable energy system is probably always going to be more expensive per unit than a fossil fuel based one.

> A fully renewable energy system is probably always going to be more expensive per unit than a fossil fuel based one. No probably not at all unless you mean in the short term. The fossil industry gets way way way more financial support. The externalities of fossils are costing us incredible amounts of money, health and lives and will do for many many decades if not centuries to come. Renewables are now cheaper than…

If you ignore the increased grid complexity and need to over provision then sure.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#737

Post by natmaka »

anonymousDan wrote: post #723
natmaka wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strategically, if nuclear power experiences a resurgence, procuring uranium could become difficult because the superpowers (Russia, China, and the US) will want to reserve it for themselves, and corresponding efforts have already begun. The majority of nuclear-producing nations (Australia, Canada, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, etc.) will immediately comply. Wind and sun, however, cannot be confiscated or withheld by blocka…

You're forgetting about the supply chain. Who manufactures all the solar panels and wind turbines? Honest question - are we increasing the risks of becoming energy dependent on China? Or does Europe have the ability to manufacture its own?

AFAIK all the raw materials (maybe not all top-notch, especially from the get go, but usable) and all the know-how exist in Europe (at worst currently working abroad), where many nations want to reindustrialize and gain autonomy.

In France numerous projects appear. Some may be too ambitious, some with a Chinese partner. In any case we will re-learn, and it will be less difficult than creating usable uranium without any adequate ore here!

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#738

Post by kieranmaine »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #537
kieranmaine wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding long term storage keep an eye on the UK's Cap and Floor scheme which offers guaranteed revenues to long term storage technologies [1]. Page 7 of https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2025-09/LDES%20... lists the technology types of the project applications. The majority are Li-Ion BESS, but there are also other battery chemistries and Liquid/Compress Air Storage 1. https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/press-rele…

> offers guaranteed revenues Government picking winners? When did that ever work out well?

I think in this case it's because LDES can't compete in the UK energy market, but it's a capability that needs to be developed, so this scheme address that by providing a guaranteed revenue.

The floor is a minimum revenue guarantee, to protect investors at times when the wholesale price is low and the cap is a maximum revenue limit to protect consumers when the wholesasle price is high.

It seems like these limits haven't been set yet, so I don't know what the potential impacts on energy prices will be.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#739

Post by AnotherGoodName »

bmelton wrote: post #463
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Australia has so much electricity during the day they’re talking about making I free for everyone in the middle of the day. Not just talking about it, if you get a smart meter and sign up for a plan that matches the grid rates you can actually be paid to take electricity during the day right now. If you're wondering "couldn't you just make bank with a battery" yes you can. In fact Australia dominates the world in gr…

How is it that people haven't turned to bitcoin mining (or similarly large energy dumps) during the daytime?

The cost of the rig and the few inconsistent hours a day its negative i’d guess.

It’s not in the negative enough to be worthwhile dumping max amps but it’s certainly worth storing to buffer against peak hour pricing.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#740

Post by breakyerself »

DrBazza wrote: post #733
fundatus wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the reason for that? Fossil fuels. Cited from one of your articles: > “Our industry continues to face difficult market dynamics and challenging energy costs, with European gas prices around three times higher than the US,” Arnaud Valenduc, business director for Ineos Inovyn, the Ineos business that makes chloromethane, says in the press release.

That quote mentions gas only. What about coal, oil, and biofuel? Record energy costs are a thing. If solar and wind are 'free', why have European energy prices risen so much? The real-world contra-indicators are the USA, China and pretty much any country outside the groupthink of the G20. Whilst state interference is a factor, more tellingly they haven't slavishly followed the suicidal empathy of being 'green' and sh…

China installed more renewables in 2025 than the rest of the world combined.
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