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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#731

Post by sehansen »

vee-kay wrote: post #634
sehansen wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has nothing to to with EVs per se, as many modern ICE cars are just as impossible to repair for non-affiliated repair shops. And some EVs, e.g. the Nissan Leaf, are quite easy to work on for independent shops.

Except for the electronic subsystem, almost everything else in an ICE car can be repaired by a competent non-dealer mechanic shop. I do agree though that modern ICE vehicles are becoming more and more complex, with electronic subsystems replacing manual subsystems, so non-dealer mechanics may struggle with such complex work and may even reject the work saying it's out of their ambit. This situation is getting aggrava…

The difficulty of working on the electric-drive components are massively exaggerated. Independent shops routinely swap worn-out Nissan Leaf batteries with salvaged or rebuilt battery packs nowadays. You can even get a 3rd party replacement pack with a different battery chemistry: https://evsenhanced.com/aftermarket-battery/

And then there's all the people putting Tesla drive-trains in classic cars. They couldn't do that if they weren't able to work on the electric drive.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#732

Post by sehansen »

fy20 wrote: post #218
coryrc wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially as Toyota seems structurally unable to create a good EV. They produced one completely bare-bones model 30 years ago and never expanded past that. At least they're keeping some knowledge of the parts by having PHEVs, but I don't think they're on the leading edge of anything. Maybe they don't need to be and can buy everything from other suppliers, but they're going to be doing a whole lot less than they curr…

Toyota hybrids are full hybrids however, not mild hybrids like other manufactures, so all you really need is a bigger battery and charger. My 10 year old RAV4 Hybrid (not plug-in) can deliver 160kW just from the electric motors, without the engine. That's 3x a Dacia Spring. They have the technology for motors and control electronics, and they know it works long term without issues. Most of the European EVs are basica…

"Most of the European EVs are basically just electric city cars, unable to drive long ranges due to small batteries and limited fast charging"

The top 10 most sold European EVs in Europe in 2025 were the Skoda Elroq, VW ID.7, VW ID.3, Skoda Enyaq, BMW iX1, Audi Q4 e-tron, VW ID.4, VW ID.Buzz, Audi Q6 e-tron and Volvo EX30. All but the iX1, the ID.Buzz and the EX30 you can get with >300 miles range. All but the iX1, the Q4 and the EX30 you can get with >150 kW DC charging.

Whether any of these is a city car depends on your definition; to me a city car is something like a Toyota Aygo. The current version, the Toyota Aygo X, has an overall length of 3700 mm. The shortest car in the top 10 list from earlier is the Volvo EX30 at ~4200 mm. I think being 0.5 m longer than an Aygo disqualifies even the Volvo from being a city car.

Source for sales numbers: https://eu-evs.com/bestSellers/ALL/Brands/Year/2025

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#733

Post by dotancohen »

the_pwner224 wrote: post #179
dotancohen wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint. After driving my Model 3 in 2022, a colleague bought his first non-BMW: a Tesla Model 3. His only complaints were the seat and the handling. Everything else he liked better about the Tesla. This from someone who owned three or four BMWs.

You can get a BMW for $40k or $120k. Big spectrum. As another datapoint, I have one of those higher tier BMWs and even the top trim Lucid's interior feels like a downgrade compared to my car. The $50-80k BMWs also feel cheap and crappy to drive when I've tested them. Tesla can't compete on anything except their ADAS which is superior. If you're transitioning from a barebones 330i then yeah the Tesla is probably bette…

Thanks for the counter counter point. I actually don't know which models BMW were in this guy's past. The last one was either a 5 or 3 series, four doors, not an M.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#734

Post by etempleton »

monero-xmr wrote: post #220
etempleton wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Porsche / Audi are selling a lot more cars then they were 10-15 years ago. I think they will be okay. Chinese brands will cut into all establish automaker sales, but the German cars have strong brands that symbolize luxury. Look at Land Rover. There are cars are completely unreliable and they are selling more than ever at increasingly ludicrous prices. I agree with you, but luxury car manufactures largely sell leases…

I am very much interested in electric cars that look like normal cars. I understand the battery changes things. But why they have to shit up the design of 75% of electric cars is nonsensical to me

Early adopters of electric cars apparently want their cars to look like electric cars, but I am with you. Make them look normal and blend in a stop doing wonky things with the rest of the car like making door handles that are finicky and cumbersome. We already solved that problem.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#735

Post by kulahan »

vpribish wrote: post #178
kulahan wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of features I see on high end cars… (no clue if these are available in Chinese cars, just to help you get an idea of what exists) 1. Backup camera with lines that move as you turn the wheel 2. Camera setup that lets you see how close you are to curbs, other cars, etc. from a plethora of unexpected angles (you can get a top-down view of your car! Pretty cool.) 3. Automatic parking when parallel parking 4. “Re…

huh. I don't want any of those things and i do have a porsche.

A backup camera is so useful and important it's required by law now, and it's already on your Porsche if it's not 20 years old.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#736

Post by vpribish »

kulahan wrote: post #735
vpribish wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

huh. I don't want any of those things and i do have a porsche.

A backup camera is so useful and important it's required by law now, and it's already on your Porsche if it's not 20 years old.

just missed it - but that does seem to be a good add.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#737

Post by jasoncartwright »

rcxdude wrote: post #371
jasoncartwright wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You use kerbside charging. Unlike petrol, electricity comes to you.

This is how it needs to work, but in practice it doesn't really exist right now. (And, in the few places where it does exist, the price basically destroys a lot of the running costs advantages of an EV).

I've been charging from lampposts and other street chargers for 11 years now

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#738

Post by brianpan »

dotancohen wrote: post #130
brianpan wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're comparing notes, I traded in my Model 3 for a BMW i4 and I couldn't be happier. It's a nicer car and more fun to drive! JD Power and Consumer Reports both rate BMW above average. BTW, my impression of BMW maintenance from prior decades is expensive and not great reliability. I care about it less now with EVs because there is so much less regular maintenance. No oil changes, no brake pad changes, etc.

Counterpoint. After driving my Model 3 in 2022, a colleague bought his first non-BMW: a Tesla Model 3. His only complaints were the seat and the handling. Everything else he liked better about the Tesla. This from someone who owned three or four BMWs.

Late reply, but did your colleague go from ICE BMWs to an EV Model 3? For me, zero maintenance and no more stopping at gas stations (you need a charger at home) were HUGE advantages to switching to an EV. So I also really liked switching from ICE to Tesla EV.

But I also much prefer my EV BMW to my previous Teslas. Nicer to drive, nicer features (better sound, HUD, sunroof), hardware controls, door handles that you can open with either hand, better in weather (no rain in the trunk).

My family complains the i4 has a smaller cabin, but the driver's seat feels just fine to me. :D

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#739

Post by Liftyee »

anonzzzies wrote: post #131
Liftyee wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh, often the LiPo protection logic is hardware based to prevent just this sort of mistake/sabotage. Some protection chips are software-configurable or reprogrammable, but the parameters are again limited (by design). Perhaps you could cause long-term damage by programming it to manage the battery poorly, like repeatedly charging/discharging it deeply. I think "every device" is just fearmongering. No software Apple/…

You cannot (I don't know) use the cpu, gpu etc to overheat it quick enough, during charging, to get it over the threshold? But even if that is not possible, de-activation would he possible; finding a 0 day as nation state and using it to disable all iPhones currently connected in the US?

Perhaps some overheating would be possible, especially during "fast charge". But batteries have had temperature sensors for a long time (that's what the extra contacts on a removable Nokia brick battery are), and the battery management chip will stop charging if temperature gets out of range.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#740

Post by fennecfoxy »

epolanski wrote: post #468
fennecfoxy wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>every week I see a new Chinese brand on the road And I think the difference is going to be apparent 15-20 years from now when new parts are needed for these models. With the big boys like Ford, Toyota etc I can trust that they manufactured (and still manufacture) parts with warehouses full of them and I can always find the part I need to repair a vehicle. I very much doubt that we will see the same thing with Chines…

No EV is going to run 20 years from now unless replacing batteries will start costing significantly less.

Tbf batteries last quite a while...current ones maybe not 20 years of hard driving, but near-future battery tech seem like they'd be able to handle it.

I'd be more concerned about the underlying skateboard of the car; all the mechanical bits & bobs that are still required for an electric car i.e. the "car" part. I feel like new Chinese manufacturers' skateboard will be hugely inconsistent over time, whereas you find that consistency with established manufacturers - for example many EVs started out built on top of a manufacturer's existing platform.

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