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Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

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Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#731

Post by Teever »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #658
throwaway613745 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used Firefox as my default browser through thick and thin for damn near two decades. If Mozilla killed andblocking extensions I’d switch to Helium Browser in a heartbeat since they’re maintaining manifest v2 support for uBO and even ship it OOTB. The web is unusable without a proper Adblock.

"The web is unusable without a proper Adblock" Unusable for the commenter perhaps, based on his choices, but not unusable in an absolute sense For example, I have been using the web without an adblock for several decades.^1 I see no ads Adblocking is only necessary when one uses a popular graphical web browser When I use an HTTP generator and a TCP client then no "adblock" is necessary When I use a text-only browser…

Why do people make posts like this?

You know that your long-winded and patronizing response in no way is a solution to the problem that you claim it is for the audience you're talking about.

Why do you pawn off an obviously non-solution as a solution? What does this get you?

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#732

Post by ghssds »

SirMaster wrote: post #659
throwaway613745 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used Firefox as my default browser through thick and thin for damn near two decades. If Mozilla killed andblocking extensions I’d switch to Helium Browser in a heartbeat since they’re maintaining manifest v2 support for uBO and even ship it OOTB. The web is unusable without a proper Adblock.

>The web is unusable without a proper Adblock. And yet somehow most people in the world use it every day without an adblocker...

How many limit themselves to a few apps owned by the GAFAM?

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#733

Post by wat10000 »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #658
throwaway613745 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used Firefox as my default browser through thick and thin for damn near two decades. If Mozilla killed andblocking extensions I’d switch to Helium Browser in a heartbeat since they’re maintaining manifest v2 support for uBO and even ship it OOTB. The web is unusable without a proper Adblock.

"The web is unusable without a proper Adblock" Unusable for the commenter perhaps, based on his choices, but not unusable in an absolute sense For example, I have been using the web without an adblock for several decades.^1 I see no ads Adblocking is only necessary when one uses a popular graphical web browser When I use an HTTP generator and a TCP client then no "adblock" is necessary When I use a text-only browser…

Using a text-only browser is equivalent to using an ad blocker that has a lot of false positives.

If you’re happy with it, carry on. But you are using the equivalent of an ad blocker.

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#734

Post by pseudalopex »

sltkr wrote: post #572
Tadpole9181 wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Firing your CEO for not being sufficiently aligned with the American Democratic Party This is not what happened. He gave money to a cause with the explicit goal of using that money to prevent his coworkers and users from having equal civil rights based on an inalienable trait they were born with. That's not an "American Democratic Party" alignment issue, and if you genuinely believe it is, your dog whistle may be b…

That's just factually wrong. Proposition 8 deprived nobody of any rights. Gay couples could get exactly the same rights as straight couples through a domestic partnership, or get married out of state, as even Wikipedia admits: > A same-sex marriage lawfully performed in another state or foreign jurisdiction on or after November 5, 2008 was fully recognized in California, but Proposition 8 precluded California from de…

> That's just factually wrong. Proposition 8 deprived nobody of any rights. Gay couples could get exactly the same rights as straight couples through a domestic partnership, or get married out of state, as even Wikipedia admits:

The US rejected separate but equal since decades.

California domestic partnerships provided most of the same rights as marriage. Not all. The California legislature had to pass bills after to address this.[1]

The bill which afforded same sex couples married out of state the same rights as heterosexual couples married in state passed over 11 months after Proposition 8 took effect. The citation of the last sentence revealed this. You did not read it?

Heterosexual couples were not required to marry out of state.

> Additionally, proposition 8 was not extreme. It was carried by a majority of California voters

Most jobs have requirements which most California voters would not meet.

> Barack Obama said at the time: “I personally believe that marriage is between a man and a woman” which is essentially what the proposition established too, though Obama opposed using a ballot proposition to settle the issue.

Obama opposed stripping rights by vote is a significant difference.

And Obama changed his public position by 2014. Eich was unable to say he would not repeat his harmful action.

And many people suspected Obama's opposition to same sex marriage was a lie in 2008 even. 1 of his advisers claimed this later.

> Eich _was_ fired for his political views

Eich said he resigned because he could not be an effective leader under the circumstances.[2] Did he lie?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_partnership_in_Califo...

[2] https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/mozilla-ceo-eich-res...

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#735

Post by sb057 »

pepperball wrote: post #712
CamouflagedKiwi wrote: post #42

Amazing how they continue not to cater to their core audience. They literally have lost 90% of their market share from their peak, I guess I can see the temptation to try to regain it by reaching out to others, but doing that at the expense of your core is a terrible business strategy. It's not like those users are all that sticky, they're leaving as Mozilla pisses them off, and likely Mozilla are going to be left wi…

> Amazing how they continue not to cater to their core audience. I’ve seen this across several industries now. The “core audience” is too small and too particular. There is another audience, much easier to please, much much larger, much more money can be made off them. Why stick to your niche “core audience”?

Well Mozilla has completely failed at it, for starters.

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#736

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #658
throwaway613745 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used Firefox as my default browser through thick and thin for damn near two decades. If Mozilla killed andblocking extensions I’d switch to Helium Browser in a heartbeat since they’re maintaining manifest v2 support for uBO and even ship it OOTB. The web is unusable without a proper Adblock.

"The web is unusable without a proper Adblock" Unusable for the commenter perhaps, based on his choices, but not unusable in an absolute sense For example, I have been using the web without an adblock for several decades.^1 I see no ads Adblocking is only necessary when one uses a popular graphical web browser When I use an HTTP generator and a TCP client then no "adblock" is necessary When I use a text-only browser…

In terms of majorities and minorities, HN commenters do not represent "almost all users"

There are some web users who are online 24/7

There are others who may prefer to stay offline

A wide variety of people use the web for a wide variety of purposes

HN commenters are a tiny sliver of "all users" and "all purposes"

As such, HN commenters are not qualified to opine on behalf of "almost all users" as almost all users do not comment on HN or elsewhere on the web. Almost all users prefer to express their opinions about the web, if any, offline

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#737

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #658
throwaway613745 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used Firefox as my default browser through thick and thin for damn near two decades. If Mozilla killed andblocking extensions I’d switch to Helium Browser in a heartbeat since they’re maintaining manifest v2 support for uBO and even ship it OOTB. The web is unusable without a proper Adblock.

"The web is unusable without a proper Adblock" Unusable for the commenter perhaps, based on his choices, but not unusable in an absolute sense For example, I have been using the web without an adblock for several decades.^1 I see no ads Adblocking is only necessary when one uses a popular graphical web browser When I use an HTTP generator and a TCP client then no "adblock" is necessary When I use a text-only browser…

I use a text-only browser as an offline HTML reader

I make HTTP requests with a TCP client

There are no "false positives"

I only request the resources that I want, e.g., the HTML from the primary domain, JSON from the API domain, etc.

I also use custom filters written in C to extract the information I want from the retreived HTML or JSON and transform it into SQL or "pretty print"

There is nothing to "block" because I'm not using software that automatically tries to request resources I do not want from domains I never indicated I wanted to contact

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#738

Post by prmph »

tadfisher wrote: post #720
prmph wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, Mozilla has a particular bad habit of not listening to customers. It shows even in the UI design. Features like tab pinning and tab groups work in ways that are sub-optimal to how users want to use them. A pinned tab should not be tied to a specific URL. If you go their forums you see a lot complaints, and weird thing is all the nonsensical arguments that their reps advance as to how these features should wor…

I'm confused, because I desperately want pinned tabs to stay on their URL, but that's not what happens, and I end up with random URLs in these tabs because I click links. Is there a config flag I flipped without thinking?

It seems they have listened to users and allow pinned tabs to navigate to any url.

Initially this is how pinning worked, and along the way they changed it so that if you navigated to a different domain from the one you pinned, it opened in a new (unpinned) tab, which was jarring.

Now it seems they have reverted that change. So they seem to vacillate on the implementation.

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#739

Post by [deleted] »

nialv7 wrote: post #81
lxgr wrote: post #41

>> He says he could begin to block ad blockers in Firefox and estimates that’d bring in another $150 million, but he doesn’t want to do that. It feels off-mission. > It may be just me, but I read this as “I don't want to but I'll kill AdBlockers in Firefox for buckerinos ”. Yes, that does seem like a pretty uncharitable interpretation of that quote. I read it as "we won't do it, even though it would bring in $150M US…

The interpretation is not the problem. Whether he will do it, is actually secondary to the fact that he thinks cutting adblock can bringing in money. No, it will just kill the browser. The fact he thinks otherwise tells me how out of touch he is.

[deleted]

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#740

Post by pmontra »

Dwedit wrote: post #705
pmontra wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

uMatrix, from the same author of uBO. It's been officially unsupported for years but it still works and it's UI is better then the UI of NoScript and of course much better than the incomprehensible subsystem of uBO that should have replaced uMatrix.

It doesn't "still work" if you're on Firefox. uMatrix has bugs that cause it to randomly delete your cookies, or occasionally fail to block a request (race condition? Looking at logger shows an incorrect domain on some requests) There are community-made forks which fix the cookies problem, like nuTensor.

Thanks, I'll check nuTensor. I'm using uMatrix with Firefox on both Linux and Android and I didn't notice anything strange but maybe some of those bugs were hidden under the normal hiccups of finding the right combination of rows with trial and errors.
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