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Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

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Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#731

Post by palata »

tim333 wrote: post #692
jkaplan wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, because an internet designed by profit motive is going great

I kind of like it. I mean here we all are on it. And sites like HN can just be written by one person and put up by one person with no permissions. The alternative if the government controlled it would be something like the Apple app store where you have to pay a fee to maybe be allowed to do something.

No it would not. We're already in some alternative where the government says that you can't make a website to sell CSAM, for instance. And we all agree that this is a good thing.

The goal of regulations is to prevent undesirable behaviours by making it "too costly" to do. The goal is not to take 30% on every app sale.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#732

Post by moi2388 »

hk__2 wrote: post #719
moi2388 wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not how the GDPR and cookie laws work at all

That’s how most news websites work in Europe: accept the cookies, or pay.

Yes, but opt-out tracking data which is not necessary for the operation of the primary use case of the app is not allowed.

It must be opt-in, truly a free choice, and informed consent, and declining must be as easy as accepting.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#733

Post by palata »

strken wrote: post #397
IMTDb wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I m not sure I follow your logic; are you saying that the regulation is not that bad because you are not fined enough if you don't follow it ? Some of us just follow regulations because it's the law - regardless of the fine. I feel like we should be allowed to express our opinion about their merits or shortcomings without considering the penalty aspect which is an entirely separate conversation.

I believe the point was the exact opposite: the regulation isn't enforced, which creates these absurd opt-out dialogue trees. If it were to be enforced fully, then anyone without a "reject all" button would be slapped with fines. Maybe even anyone who doesn't abide by the do not track/global privacy control headers.

Yes, that's what I meant.

Also businesses are not people. People may not do illegal things "just because they are illegal" or because they want to be "good" (e.g. I agree that we should not litter, I wouldn't even need a regulation for that).

Businesses are profit-maximising machines. If it it profitable to litter, a business will do it. The framework in which businesses maximise is set by regulations, which represent what society wants. That's how capitalism works.

The limit of capitalism is when businesses are more powerful than the entities in charge of enforcing the regulations. If "enforcing a regulation" means having lawyers work on it, but the businesses themselves have orders of magnitudes more lawyers trying to prevent those entities from doing their jobs, then we have a problem. That's a limit of capitalism, IMO.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#734

Post by rckt »

adrr wrote: post #564
rckt wrote: post #270

I get that too many regulations is a bad thing. But when we talk privacy and personal data there should be no gray zone. It has to be black and white. When I see a stupid cookie banner I search for "Reject all". There's no some data that companies can collect and process without my consent, they just shouldn't be able to collect anything without me actively opting in. Business never respects anything, but profits. Se…

Are cookies really tracking you? 3rd party cookies don’t work in any browser. Ads are passing session data on the URLs instead. You can alow easily change some settings to stop persistent cookies. You can install privacy extensions like ghostery to block beacons. You can use features like ICloud private relay to prevent IP tracking. Solutions are all there and they aren’t because of any law.

Everything you mentioned is advanced knowledge. An average person, who doesn't deal with all these technicalities simply doesn't know this. It's like Telegram saying that it's the most secure messenger while not offering encrypted chats by default and not allowing to have encrypted group chats. An average person in tis case ends up completely unprepared and unprotected.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#735

Post by palata »

petcat wrote: post #462
palata wrote: post #375

I don't get why people conclude from the cookie hell that "regulations are bad". If those goddamn websites got actual fines for those dark patterns, they wouldn't do it. The EU should just be stricter with the regulations.

The EU's own government websites are littered with cookie consent banners. They want the data too.

Again, because those entities ("EU", "governments") are made of many people. It's not one guy who says "this should be illegal, but I will put it on my website too".

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#736

Post by PeterStuer »

rckt wrote: post #270

I get that too many regulations is a bad thing. But when we talk privacy and personal data there should be no gray zone. It has to be black and white. When I see a stupid cookie banner I search for "Reject all". There's no some data that companies can collect and process without my consent, they just shouldn't be able to collect anything without me actively opting in. Business never respects anything, but profits. Se…

Once they lobbied in "legitimate interest" as the exception to the opt-in requirement, the whole regulation de facto became a farce for the end user.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#737

Post by miki123211 »

rckt wrote: post #270

I get that too many regulations is a bad thing. But when we talk privacy and personal data there should be no gray zone. It has to be black and white. When I see a stupid cookie banner I search for "Reject all". There's no some data that companies can collect and process without my consent, they just shouldn't be able to collect anything without me actively opting in. Business never respects anything, but profits. Se…

Nothing is ever black and white.

You could prevent all car accidents by banning motor vehicles. You could prevent all side-effect related deaths by banning all the drugs. You could stop all phone scams by banning telephones.

Obviously, that's excessive overregulation. Just as obviously, letting people get away with car accidents, phone scams and drugs that kill more people than they cure is not what we should be doing either. It's the job of the lawmakers to find the tradeoffs that work best for society.

The moment you say "it's black and white, the other side has 0 good arguments", you lose the discussion in my view. If you don't understand what we're even trying to trade off here, we can't have a productive discussion about what the right tradeoff is.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#738

Post by ta20240528 »

zenmac wrote: post #628
l5870uoo9y wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with this otherwise seemingly reasonable position. Draghi's latest report pointed out that overregulation is a major problem in the EU and costs EU companies the equivalent of a 50% tariff (if I remember correctly). Of course, Draghi's report has led to nothing more than a few headlines.

>latest report pointed out that overregulation is a major problem in the EU and costs EU companies the equivalent of a 50% tariff (if I remember correctly). Of course. Normally I'm against overrgulation, but when it comes to privacy more fine for big corp is need if ANY violation is found. Rather NOT have AI than compromise on privacy.

"I'm against overrgulation, but when it comes to privacy"

Our ancestors survived perfectly fine with telephone directories dropped at every house for free which contained everyone's name and address.

Are you sure someone knowing your address is that bad?

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#739

Post by krainboltgreene »

miki123211 wrote: post #737
rckt wrote: post #270

I get that too many regulations is a bad thing. But when we talk privacy and personal data there should be no gray zone. It has to be black and white. When I see a stupid cookie banner I search for "Reject all". There's no some data that companies can collect and process without my consent, they just shouldn't be able to collect anything without me actively opting in. Business never respects anything, but profits. Se…

Nothing is ever black and white. You could prevent all car accidents by banning motor vehicles. You could prevent all side-effect related deaths by banning all the drugs. You could stop all phone scams by banning telephones. Obviously, that's excessive overregulation. Just as obviously, letting people get away with car accidents, phone scams and drugs that kill more people than they cure is not what we should be doin…

What a funny comment. “You see, you just don’t understand trade-offs, here let me explain to you…”
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