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Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

businessinsider.com

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Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#731

Post by devnullbrain »

stogot wrote: post #364
jimbob45 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well every company just happens to be undertaking RTO at the same time so it seems to be above the exec level. I’ve seen hypotheses on here that city councils are putting on pressure to boost their local economies and another that boards of directors are pushing this as the last chance to layoff->outsource before H-1Bs are banned. Whatever it is, it certainly doesn’t appear to stem from innovative or independent exec…

Conspiracy theory: A RTO planning meeting at Davos of CEOs is likely the root cause

They've done it with pay and they've done it with hiring.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#732

Post by blacklion »

tigeroil wrote: post #718
blacklion wrote: post #714

It is funny to see how in one (IT) culture there is two narratives, often supported by same people: 1) Office is bad, people more productive working remote from their homes, and corporate C-levels issue and enforce RTO, which is silly and anti-productive. 2) All jokes about Zoom/Meet/Teams, with all these «Each meeting consists of “are you hear me?” questions», etc. Maybe, I'm unique (I'm sure I'm not), but I was twi…

I think the simple and boring answer is it really depends. As you say, your commute is short, but also I think there's just a personality element to it. Some people absolutely thrive and are way more productive remotely (and I think HN skews towards that type of person), and other people are the opposite, losing their minds if they don't have colleagues beside them to talk and collaborate with.

> I think the simple and boring answer is it really depends

Yep, people are different.

> are way more productive remotely

Is this measured, or they are feel more productive? (I think, answer is the same: there is full spectrum here and somebody is less productive but feels more productive and somebody is really more productive and, maybe, feels the same :-))

But my previous team (where I worked at the peak of COVID) was less productive for sure (I can compare release notes between product release and see as they are shrinking from release to release at COVID time!), though we have some team members who thought that they become more productive!.

Also, long time ago I worked in distributed team (St.Petersburg, Russia / Boston, USA / Santa Clara, USA) and we had twice-a-year week-long whole-team in-person meetings in Boston office (I was from St.Petersburg). These were two hyper-productive weeks, when we solved a lot of problems which accumulated between these meeting, fast and efficient. It was before video-conferencing, so all other meetings was phone-calls (only audio), but still.

I understand, that it is not statistics, it is anecdotal, but I'm very skeptical about broad claims that distributed / remote teams (!) can be as efficient (or even more) as local ones. Personal contributors — sure, all people are different, but whole teams — I'm in doubt. We are social animals, and all these video calls are still conversation with pixels, not people.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#733

Post by regularfry »

whinvik wrote: post #586

Threads like these are always one sided with people against RTO. What I would really like to see is arguments from the other side. Can someone steelman RTO. Preferably with evidence, anecdotal or otherwise.

If people don't go into the offices, the company will not retain the office space and there will no longer be the option of doing so.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#734

Post by nananana9 »

IshKebab wrote: post #665
whinvik wrote: post #586

Threads like these are always one sided with people against RTO. What I would really like to see is arguments from the other side. Can someone steelman RTO. Preferably with evidence, anecdotal or otherwise.

I think it would be hard to argue that working all together in an office - like before covid - isn't more productive. In-person meetings are easier. Whiteboarding and brainstorming is way easier. Spontaneous conversations are easier. Helping junior people is easier. People actually pay attention in meetings. You get to know colleagues better. Have you ever had to "now click on the left... no, up a bit. No go back you…

I completely agree, but just as the company couldn't care less about the employee's benefits from WFH, I couldn't care less about the company's benefits from WFO.

Most organizations are so inefficient, that all of this is barely a factor - whether or not work is getting done at 1% of the rate of what it should be getting done, or 1.3% isn't really a dealbreaker for the company.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#735

Post by farceSpherule »

Another anecdote. I have a friend who manages his families (started by his father and grandfather) private market investment company. The family is worth nine figures.

He pulled his people back into the office because he said he "felt" like they were not working. Despite graduating from Harvard and from Harvard Business School he could not offer any qualitative or quantitative data to back up his "feelings." He lets his people WFH on Friday's but says he schedules video calls on that day to make sure they are working.

He said, "When they are working from home, I do not know if they are walking their dog for an hour but if they are in the office, I know they aren't."

What made this conversation laughable was that he and I were at a country club having lunch and bullshitting for half the day, on a weekday, while our kids (who had the day off from school) were playing a sport together. He stepped away more than once for "meetings" that he took from his cell phone.

It was laughable.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#736

Post by steveBK123 »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #633
steveBK123 wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way these people think - if employees like it, it must be a perk/benefit. Therefore with the current job market we don’t need to be generous with it. Related - JPMorgan is opening a new HQ with a big nice gym, and plan to charge employees to use it, lol. Thanks I’ll just leave the building Jamie.

I saw a few clickbait articles highlighting that JPMorgan's new world headquarters in Manhattan (270 Park Ave) has a gym but will charge employees to use it. Why is this so interesting? I have worked in many different tall office buildings in my career. I saw a variety of setups: (1) company gym, (2) third party gym, (3) no gym. You always had to pay a fee to use the gym. Why does requiring employees to pay trigger s…

If you're going above&beyond the industry average and demanding full 5-day-RTO, and pointing at how you just built a brand new HQ with great amenities so suck it up, then don't charge for those amenities?

Anyway, I've recruited with JPM a few times in my career, my spouse worked there at one point, and I know friends who have been through. So I like to pick on them as a good example of a company using their brand as an excuse to have bad pay/benefits relative to rest of industry. Good for investors I suppose, but don't work there.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#737

Post by devnullbrain »

steveBK123 wrote: post #352
Mobius01 wrote: post #139

I work in a large company that mandated 4-day RTO last year. Even taking a completely objetive point of view on the situation leads to the conclusion that something else is needed. We spend our days at our desks, on Zoom calls. People won’t get up to join in person - mostly because the conference rooms are all blocked by “special projects”, but mostly due to the offshoring of positions and distributed workforce post-…

This is exactly the problem with a lot of the RTO push.. We are more geographically spread out than ever, and companies usually have, at best, 1/2 the conferences rooms required to actually collaborate properly. So in-office days are spent sitting in a big noisy open floor plan, wearing noise cancelling headphones trying to get work done.. in between producing lots of noise yourself on zoom. The other having-it-both-…

It's worse now, but complaints about offices as working spaces were constant pre-pandemic too. Complaining about it then made you seem a bit... wet.

But now the highest levels have brought the productivity benefits of RTO into their wheelhouse. So making the offices suitable also shouldn't be a responsibility punted to a relatively minor position.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#738

Post by aurareturn »

wiseowise wrote: post #726
aurareturn wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? The top employees I saw in my career had the ability to both lead others and be competent in individual tasks.

Ability to lead others is caring whether Lizz the Frizz is not delivering up to someone’s standards?

Yes. You know. Leaders.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#739

Post by tucnak »

RHSeeger wrote: post #506
foogazi wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They work better with you sitting next to them /s

You /s, but that's actually a fair point - Some people work better at home, away from the office - Some people work better in the office, with their co-workers around them Those two facts are at direct odds with each other. It's unfortunate, but you can't give both groups what they want.

The downvotes are all from guys remote-moonlighting three separate FAANG jobs, each paying out hundred grand a year. They can afford it!

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#740

Post by cml123 »

thegreatpeter wrote: post #449
cml123 wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My employer is currently mandating a 2 day per-week RTO for all employees within 50 miles of a major office, but in my case, even if they wanted to, they'd be unable to force a return to a 5 day arrangement. My commute time has more than doubled since they closed and sold my office for a hefty sum of money. As a result of multiple offices converging to one, there are insufficient seats for the number of employees act…

Where do you work?

A large insurer with an inexplicable bird mascot
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