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We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

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Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#731

Post by jjani »

bubblebeard wrote: post #364

The author makes a good point but for the wrong reason I think. The fact that companies lock down their software, and hardware (looking at you Apple), is their choice just like it is yours to give them the finger. However, at least in Sweden, a smart phone is practically mandatory since it has become a means of identification used by banks, police, our IRS counterpart etc. Even our physical mail is slowly being digit…

I reckon a whole lot of these things wouldn't hold up in court. Either Swedish court or EU court. If not, then German court, or Australian court.

Here in this very thread I'm quite sure there's dozens of people who have pretty much made millions off of the back of this exact thing, i.e. working as developers at the likes of Google, Meta and Apple, part of the machine.

We need those people to atone and start funding lawyers out of pocket and bringing such cases, rather than just chatting about woe is me. In Europe that is, where the judiciary is still much less captured - the US is a lost cause. Such lawsuits are also much cheaper than going up against MegaCorp in US court.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#732

Post by 1970-01-01 »

Nope. The masses have voted with their wallets for the walled garden approach. Maybe if the Linux phone wasn't as terrible or worse than bottom contender Android devices the argument could stand. In an era where move fast and break things is business as usual, we've correctly chosen the devices that just work, even when we must sell our privacy to make it so. The days of IBM/PC compatible are ancient history.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#733

Post by tomaskafka »

abustamam wrote: post #717
shawabawa3 wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you decide you don't want a relationship with either of those companies you will be extremely disadvantaged. Even more worrying is the inverse of this - if Google and/or Apple decide for whatever reason they don't want a relationship with you (aka they ban you for no reason) - you are completely screwed

Even if they ban you for a reason, you're screwed. Granted, the ban may have been warranted, but you're essentially put into a societal prison with no due process or recourse.

That is a great analogy. There are countries where a police can throw you into a lifetime jail with zero option for justice unless you are a famous person from a well known western country.

Those countries are North Korea, Iran, Russia, Google and Apple.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#734

Post by mothballed »

tomaskafka wrote: post #733
abustamam wrote: post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if they ban you for a reason, you're screwed. Granted, the ban may have been warranted, but you're essentially put into a societal prison with no due process or recourse.

That is a great analogy. There are countries where a police can throw you into a lifetime jail with zero option for justice unless you are a famous person from a well known western country. Those countries are North Korea, Iran, Russia, Google and Apple.

Well the US can do it with CBP/ICE, but not for life. I was placed in a jail without being arrested or being accused of a crime and they were very clear at all times I was not even arrested, nor did a federal criminal history search show any record of arrest. No access to lawyer either.

US Citizen. Contacted lawyers, all informed me they'd given up trying to sue for these things because it's hopeless.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#735

Post by bccdee »

Meneth wrote: post #536
bccdee wrote: post #184

> Forcing Apple to change core tenets of iOS by legislative means would undermine what made the iPhone successful. Even if this is true… so what? Perhaps the App Store monopoly has helped make the iPhone successful, but that doesn't make it a good thing. > If you want to play Playstation games on your PS5 you must suffer Sony’s restrictions, but if you want to convert your PS5 into an emulator running Linux that shou…

The word "badly" means different things to different people, so I believe you could not get a majority to agree that any law to such effect is perfectly good.

I don't expect a single monolithic law could work, but I see no reason why a constellation of specific laws couldn't work.

For instance, the "stop killing games" proposal¹ is by far one of the most demanding laws I can imagine in this vein, but I've (anecdotally) seen massive support for it in gaming communities.

[1]: https://www.stopkillinggames.com/faq

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#736

Post by alirezaxdehghan »

Nursie wrote: post #622
zigzag312 wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You provided an alterative solution yourself. Make protection harder to disable, so non-tech savvy users can't disable it easily, always inform them of the consequences of disabling it and make it that it's only needed in exceptional cases (there a lot of room for improvement here). If they want to climb over the protection fence, they should be able to do it as they clearly WANT to do it. Why should you have control…

> always inform them of the consequences This would be about as useful as telling the cat why he can’t go out right now. The words would not be understood, as they won’t be by probably 90% of humanity. > If they want to… They don’t. Categorically. The only reason they would try is because they are being scammed with offers of getting something or cajolement entreating them to allow it. > Why should you have control w…

I remember that in order to unlock the bootloader of my trusty old Xiaomi Mi 5 (I still use it to this day as a test device for development) I had to go to some website, say that I'm happy with unlocking it, agreeing to the terms and stuff and at the end be willing to wipe my device clean and have an "unlocked" written under my boot animation. I think these would stop your average joe, but now I've heared Xiaomi has blocked unlocking your bootloader in its entirety which is a shame, they used to allow root access from inside a stock app.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#737

Post by dzikimarian »

christina97 wrote: post #720
Nextgrid wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have many ISPs to choose from. There are not many "Googles" nor "Apples" to choose from.

My apartment, smack bang in the middle of Manhattan, has a single coax cable opened by Spectrum, and is the only option for me to get reliable internet connection. I have no choice but to (1) sign whatever their ToS are, (2) pay whatever they want to charge, and (3) have them do what they want with my metadata. I’ve decided it’s not the hill I want to die on, but no, I don’t have many ISPs to choose from.

You have at very least: * Mobile connection, a few carriers * Starlink/Eutelsat

It's not perfect, but nowhere near Google/Apple duopoly. Also this is very local US issue, solvable on city level regulation, while smartphones are everywhere.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#738

Post by Strom »

christina97 wrote: post #720
Nextgrid wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have many ISPs to choose from. There are not many "Googles" nor "Apples" to choose from.

My apartment, smack bang in the middle of Manhattan, has a single coax cable opened by Spectrum, and is the only option for me to get reliable internet connection. I have no choice but to (1) sign whatever their ToS are, (2) pay whatever they want to charge, and (3) have them do what they want with my metadata. I’ve decided it’s not the hill I want to die on, but no, I don’t have many ISPs to choose from.

Doesn’t Manhattan have radio based ISPs like 5G providers? Perhaps not ideal but far from a single ISP provider.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#739

Post by dzikimarian »

patates wrote: post #690
sokoloff wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I called their support line for a lost card, and had to go through to second level support because I didn't have the app. What’s the alternative? The bank sending out a debit card to anyone who calls up and says “I’m @kristov, trust me…” You were not able to served by the standard path, because you couldn’t authenticate yourself via the standard mechanism. You still got service by an alternate path. No different fr…

Wait, how you being on the Google/Apple ecosystem help the identification process?

You need Google/Apple blessed phone to install most banking apps

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#740

Post by hansvm »

dataflow wrote: post #653
kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

Can you make an argument as to how this is different from having to have an account with, say, your ISP?

A few points:

1. It's not necessarily different. Your ISP has monopolistic power over you, and it should be regulated more aggressively.

2. A non-mobile ISP is currently much less important than an Apple/Google account for interacting with modern society, and less important than it was even a decade ago. If all 1.5 of my available home ISPs turned evil I could manage just fine without them.

3. Given the relative public perceptions this feels weird to say, but Comcast and their ilk are much less problematic than the Apple/Google monopolies. You can largely just pay for internet (plus an extra 10-40% from scammy business practices) and do whatever you want to do, with the analytics they're selling about you being less invasive than those which Apple/Google use.

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