‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#731

Post by nradov » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 1:31 AM UTC

immibis wrote: post #716

nradov wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the countries with the actual capacity for aggressive outside intervention have any interest in doing so. For better or worse it's just not a priority. People in the Israel / Palestine region will have to find a solution to their own problems, or (more likely) just continue the horrifying and pointless cycle of violence.

The countries with capacity for outside intervention are intervening - to support Israel. Without constant outside support, Israel would fall by this time next month. It would not longer be a country.

Nah. Israel is a nuclear power. They have a right to exist and won't just quietly disappear. If they feel that they're facing an existential threat then they'll use those weapons. I'm not saying that this is a good thing, just that it would be the most likely outcome. The current situation is bad for everyone involved but it could get even worse.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#732

Post by tguvot » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 1:40 AM UTC

mardifoufs wrote: post #728

tguvot wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a) not marginal. they are powerful enough to create "no-go zones" for PA and to attempt executing terror acts in Israel b) i'll suggest you to take a look how many new settlements israel build in last 20 years or so. it may surprise you c) Fatah didn't stop armed resistance. It military wings got wiped by Israel in second intifada. And it didn't fought off Hamas. It lost to Hamas in Gaza and survived in west bank bec…

I'm not sure why you say that it would surprise me. How many settlements do you think is okay? And more importantly, how many projected settlements are okay, in your opinion? No, Fatah did absolutely stop armed resistance. Getting wiped by Israel hasn't been a reason for Palestinians to stop fighting or laying down the arms before. Fatah stopped fighting, in part due to Israel's military victory, sure. But also becau…

- learning basic facts facilitates fact based discussions. you avoid going and learning facts that may not correspond to your worldview

- fatah was beaten down. it doesn't say "stopped". it says "lost". hamas wasn't knocked down into oblivion and they were always more popular than fatah

- no go zones means that PA doesn't go there because Hamas/PIJ will kill them there.

- rockets not thrown from there not because due to generosity of local population but because of work of shin bit. in fact since oct 7th there been significant increase in arms smuggling from jordan to west bank to a point that IDF is unable to prevent or monitor it. including heavier weapons. this is probably for cultivation of famously fertile west bank soil, according to you ?

- map showing that hamas won in most areas of west bank as well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_e...

- recent polling on elections: But if new legislative elections were held today with the participation of all political forces that participated in the 2006 elections, 62% say they will participate in them, and among the participants in the elections 43% say they will vote for Hamas, 28% for Fatah, 8% for third parties, and 19% have not yet decided. In the Gaza Strip, vote for Hamas among voters participating in the elections stands at 49% , and vote for Fatah among voters participating in the elections stands at 30% . In the West Bank, vote for Hamas stands at 38% and Fatah among voters participating in elections stands at 27%

- link that i posted above more certainly show that population engages in armed and not armed but violent resistance and attacks israeli population and constantly attempts to perform terror acts in Israel. and you still didn't tell me how much exactly israel expanded it settlements. you just claim that it did without any factual backing.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#733

Post by csb6 » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 1:51 AM UTC

hersko wrote: post #384

pphysch wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does X do evil things? What is happening is definitely "evil" in its purest form, but there are many contributing explanations that don't rely on circular reasoning. - long-term geopolitical goals of "the West" in the middle east - a culture defined by a noxious combination of victim complex + ethnoreligious superiority - a society pampered by foreign financial and military aid (not having to stand on its own)…

Your middle two points apply to the Palestinians more than the Israelis IMHO.

Do you believe people living in Gaza are “pampered”?

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#734

Post by mopsi » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 1:57 AM UTC

nojonestownpls wrote: post #686

9dev wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Russian war on Ukraine is a WILDLY different case. There was no border dispute of any kind between these countries, no terror, no threats, just the Russian desire to own Ukraine. Your point is pretty moot.

> There was no border dispute of any kind between these countries That is such a perfect representation of the level of public discourse around this, that I can only thank you for providing a sample. It's not even hard to learn about the Donetsk region's conflicts and the destruction there long before the invasion, but flooding the media and Internet with convenient narratives like "just the Russian desire to own Ukr…

> It's not even hard to learn about the Donetsk region's conflicts and the destruction there long before the invasion, but flooding the media and Internet with convenient narratives like "just the Russian desire to own Ukraine" has worked and continues to work very effectively on the general public (likely even more than the censorship does).

There was none. The conflict in Donetsk was entirely manufactured during the initial stages of the 2014 invasion. When the European Court of Human Rights reviewed a case concerning the downed Malaysian airliner, the Russian side argued that Russia was not involved, claiming that it was the work of "Donetsk rebels". The court found that there was no genuine separatist movement and no rebels of any kind, only unmarked troops operating under direct Russian control from the start.

If anything, the media has been flooded with misrepresentations that promote a "generic ethnic conflict" narrative to mask a straightforward and unprovoked invasion of one country by another country. And the reasons indeed do boil down to one single person, his unchecked power, and unhealthy obsessions - as has been the case with many dictators throughout the history.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#735

Post by cm2012 » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 2:02 AM UTC

immibis wrote: post #718

cm2012 wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try very hard to find credible primary and secondary sources of what's true on the ground. For Gaza, but also for Ukraine, Myanmar, Sudan, I am basically a nerd about conflict zones. From all of my research, I believe the IDF gets a bad rap but is no worse in Gaza than any Western army would be in the same situation. And indeed we can see that in dug in cities like the coalition forces vs ISIS in Mosul, civilian ca…

Is it possible that "any Western army" is also pure evil?

Ulysses Grant, hero of the Civil war for the Union, said, "War is cruelty and cannot be refined." But evil is up to you.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#736

Post by JumpCrisscross » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 2:08 AM UTC

istjohn wrote: post #557

jdietrich wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You could also say that "two-state solution" has been tried in 1948, but (for whatever reasons) didn't work out. The Arab world overwhelmingly rejected the UN Partition Plan in principle, which led directly to the 1948 Palestine war and the first Arab-Israeli war. Likewise, the signing of the Oslo Accords (and the rejection of those accords by Hamas, PIJ and other factions within the PLO) led directly to the Second…

The UN partition plan was a plan to take a huge chunk of Palestine and hand it to foreign settlers. Of course, Palestinians did not love it. Israel has never made a prolonged effort to build the mutual trust necessary to reach a negotiated settlement. During the Oslo Accords, the Israeli settler population nearly doubled. One only need observe how Palestinian territory has shrunk decade after decade ever since 1948 t…

> UN partition plan was a plan to take a huge chunk of Palestine and hand it to foreign settlers. Of course, Palestinians did not love it

Any party loving a deal has never been a precondition of international relations or, frankly, negotiations as a whole.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#737

Post by JumpCrisscross » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 2:11 AM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #434

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> concept of nations is perhaps two centuries old at best Concept of nation states . Nations and states, separately, are an older concept. > they were often simply under the dominion of one imperial power or another For millennia. Often because inter-ethnic conflicts required an external security guarantor to keep a lid on the chaos. One could argue this history of chaos goes back to the Hittites and Bronze Age colla…

During the times there was an external security guarantor, conflict would by definition go down (assuming the external power was sufficiently potent and stable). So you can't say that both chaos and dominion were happening simultaneously at all times. > One could argue this history of chaos goes back to the Hittites and Bronze Age collapse. And one could claim that the history of chaos in Central Europe goes back to…

> you can't say that both chaos and dominion were happening simultaneously at all times

Nobody said this.

> one could claim that the history of chaos in Central Europe goes back to the dissolution of the Carolingian Empire, or the Ostsiedlung, or perhaps even before the Romans made contact with the Germani

Well, yes. It’s a nexus of navigable waterways. It has taken millennia of negotiating, atrocity and—ultimately—an external security guarantor twinned with mutual forgiveness to attain, for a short period, peace.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#738

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 2:20 AM UTC

bawolff wrote: post #665

ivape wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I get you. It's just ... https://youtube.com/shorts/MuPfkxQns1k I'm having a hard time being nice. What are people supposed to think? We're supposed to walk away from stuff like that and go "yeah there's two sides to this, we should reserve judgement"? There's no two sides to this. Israel over-corrected after Oct 7, the same way America did after 9/11. They destroyed a city, and then funneled it's citizens into…

> yeah there's two sides to this, we should reserve judgement"? Of course not, for starters there is significantly more than 2 sides of this multifaceted conflict. You should not reserve judgemdnt. You should still listen and try and understand everyone's perspective before coming to your judgement, otherwise what is the point? > There's no two sides to this. Israel over-corrected after Oct 7, the same way America di…

[deleted]

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#739

Post by slt2021 » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 2:28 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #696

slt2021 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Iraqi, Moroccan, Yemeni, Tunisian, Algerian, and Syrian Jewish citizens of Israel cannot in fact "simply pull their 2nd or 3rd passports and go back to where they came from", and this notion that every Israeli has a "3rd passport" (or, for that matter, a 2nd) is itself an ethnic slur.

[flagged]

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#740

Post by tguvot » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 2:37 AM UTC

cultofmetatron wrote: post #620

prepend wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what will ever give Israel confidence that Oct 7 will never happen again? No Hamas in power? Seems like that would give pretty good confidence. This reminds me of alternate history stories where Japan refused to surrender. The US demanded unconditional surrender in WW2. What would have happened if the axis refused. What would have made the allies confident that the war was over without German and Japanese unconditi…

Hamas isn' in control of the west bank. That hasn't gone so well for the Palestinians either. Google "Great March of Return" if you want to learn about what happenned when palestinians tried to protest peacefully.

if you will read wikipage of great march of return, it will tell you that from first day it wasn't peaceful