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4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

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Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#731

Post by godelski »

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #721
godelski wrote: post #719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a high minimum investment This is the only part I actually disagree with. Science is incredibly cheap. It can have a long time to mature but interestingly that is dependent on the number of "bonds", with quicker returns when there's more "bonds" issued. I'd say there's 4 common classes of misinterpretation: Perception bias: ---------------- Most of science is performed by grad students and academics. Neither of whi…

Just a note you may find helpful. I feel your post is too long to be digested and responded to in a forum like this. Maybe I'm wrong, and if so I apologise! But as soon as I saw the essay like format, I knew I wasn't going to spend time on it. I think shorter points that provoke discussion may work better here.

I appreciate the comment, I know I can be a bit wordy. I tried to organize so it's visually easy to get the tldr and each block could tell you the tldr from the first sentence. If you have suggestions of how to distill, I'm open to the feedback. Or if you'd like to add a tldr yourself that's a good contribution.

But also, this is HN. I wouldn't have this conversation on Twitter and I hope we can have more nuanced conversations here, as well as I hope the average user has a bit more intelligence/attention than a place like Reddit. Maybe I'm assuming incorrectly

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#732

Post by [deleted] »

scoreandmore wrote: post #433
nomel wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever org I've worked for slowly became unable to innovate because of "institutional knowledge". I think it's important to forget, to some extent, every once in a while. It forces a new traversal of the problem space, but in a modern context, with modern tools, fresh eyes, and a better understanding of what's needed. Thus we have Space X. There are some great interviews with Jim Keller, who has a similar perspective:…

And did you stick around to see what happens after they go full tabula rasa? I have: they fall so far behind they close up shop. The proper response is to move slowly and intentionally and use indicators. Like ‘design thinking’, with prototyping and feedback and incremental feedback, not burn shit to the ground because planning is too hard mentality. But I realize that’s what shareholders demand. And now that gov’t i…

[deleted]

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#733

Post by godelski »

csa wrote: post #724
MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a note you may find helpful. I feel your post is too long to be digested and responded to in a forum like this. Maybe I'm wrong, and if so I apologise! But as soon as I saw the essay like format, I knew I wasn't going to spend time on it. I think shorter points that provoke discussion may work better here.

Just a note you may find helpful. > I feel your post is too long It’s about 700 words. It’s thought through, well-written, neatly organized, and it’s a fine set up for further discussion. If that’s too long for you on this forum , then I’d probably take a look in the mirror and ask some tough questions.

Thanks for the support. I know I can be wordy but I also come to HN to have more nuanced conversations than somewhere like Twitter or Reddit. Honestly, I think a lot of political fighting is caused by removal of nuance and the tendency to be rushing for rushing's sake.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#734

Post by protocolture »

ACCount36 wrote: post #507
protocolture wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devils advocate, Musk is no longer part of the administration, and news reports have cited Nasa nonsense as part of why.

Reportedly, Jared Isaacman, the rumored Musk's NASA pick of choice, wanted to cut down SLS/Orion and axe Gateway - and was opposed to science cuts. Jared Isaacman is out, and what we're seeing actually happen now is the opposite of that. All the pork barrels are getting funded, and the brunt of budget cuts seems to be stated to be born by science missions like Roman Space Telescope.

>Reportedly, Jared Isaacman, the rumored Musk's NASA pick of choice, wanted to cut down SLS/Orion and axe Gateway - and was opposed to science cuts.

I have read third party commentary on the SLS/Orion stuff that agrees. And actually, IIRC, Gateway requires multiple launches contracted out to Boeing and SpaceX, so this would be cutting off musks nose a little.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#735

Post by protocolture »

wnevets wrote: post #505
protocolture wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devils advocate, Musk is no longer part of the administration, and news reports have cited Nasa nonsense as part of why.

> Devils advocate, Musk is no longer part of the administration, and news reports have cited Nasa nonsense as part of why. Only a devils advocate would believe that with this administration still giving his companies massive government contracts [1] and regulation win falls [2] [1] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/grok-elon-musk-xai-pentagon-con... [2] https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-musk-spacex-rocket-...

They should totally use that other company with reliable launch capability.. or maybe that government department with reliable launch capability... or maybe they should go with the russians... hmmmmm.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#736

Post by autoexec »

guywithahat wrote: post #720
eru wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The truth is that science builds the foundation for that other stuff. It is the very ground you stand on. Engineering without science is like trying to run without ground. That doesn't mean that government investment in science is necessarily a good idea. > I'd be willing to wager that the economic impact of Newton and Leibniz's invention of Calculus[0] is larger than the economic impact of any engineering product,…

I wish more people understood this. An enormous amount of research work sits somewhere between a public jobs program and a waste of resources, and we're at a point where NASA has fallen behind in significant ways. Calling something research doesn't mean we should protect it, and most significant advancements aren't through government but rather private industry.

> most significant advancements aren't through government but rather private industry.

Can you back that up? Be sure to only include examples of private industry that wasn't supported or backed by the government and didn't depend on prior government advancements to make their advancements

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#737

Post by me-vs-cat »

goku12 wrote: post #575
ericvolp12 wrote: post #521

The article doesn't really do this justice, it's not really "opting to leave" it's that entire divisions inside the Science side of NASA have had their projects defunded and so all the work the people in those labs were doing is now gone. They're being asked to leave voluntarily so they don't have to be "fired" but all their work and resources are gone and they couldn't stay if they wanted to. A friend of mine had he…

Pardon my ignorance. But isn't it better to be laid off or fired than to resign, since the former entitles you to a few months of severance pay? Or is it different somehow under these circumstances?

In the US, there is no general entitlement to severance beyond a specific employer's policies, a worker's or union's contract (if any) with that employer, or any one-time offer (usually called a voluntary layoff or voluntary resignation) from that employer.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#738

Post by OhioMan2943 »

crinkly wrote: post #79
tonyhart7 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is that same people that I was thinking???? I know they all one to blame even they control government

Well there's quite a few of them who are ideologically aligned.

Is this in the same vein as those who are influencing the republican party or something a little more discreet. A hint never hurt

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#739

Post by skissane »

soulofmischief wrote: post #617
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shit happens, what can you do about it? Do you think garbage men, teachers or doctors will care about the tough job market of SW engineers? Everyone's job and everyone's lives have challenges, nobody else will cry for you, it's still up to you to deal with whatever problems life throws at you.

No. Flip it around. I care about the salaries and working condition of garbage men, teachers and doctors, even if they don't value mine. All three of those jobs you listed have vested interest groups who are standing in the way of a better life for those who provide these essential services, or are artificially controlling the market. What we do about it is educate the public and form institutions that are motivated…

> I care about the salaries and working condition of garbage men, teachers and doctors, even if they don't value mine. All three of those jobs you listed have vested interest groups who are standing in the way of a better life for those who provide these essential services, or are artificially controlling the market.

Do doctors really belong on that list? In my personal experience-I’m not a doctor, but lots of people in my family are, including my mother and brother (and when she finishes med school, my sister too)-I really don’t get the impression doctors are poorly paid at all. If we talk about those with established careers (so not junior doctors), the poorly paid ones are still earning twice what the average person does, and the better paid ones are off the charts. On average, medicine pays better than software engineering.

Oh, and I’m in Australia-in the US, medical salaries are even better than they are in Australia. Like take what people get paid in Australia and add 50%. Yes, American doctors would owe more in student loans-but when you are on US$400K, and the average US medical school debt is under US$300K, how long is it going to take you to pay it off?

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#740

Post by supplied_demand »

nomel wrote: post #669
supplied_demand wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

== if you want to stamp out a young engineers creativity, start them working in a big org.== Jim Keller’s own biography kind of dispels this notion. He worked at DEC for 16 years when he was a young engineer (24-40 years old).

I'm not sure dot-com era DEC had much stagnation or institutional knowledge that wasn't continuously overrun, nor would it be comparable to most big orgs these days.

He worked there starting in 1982. When do you think the dot-com era started?
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