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Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

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Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#731

Post by fipar »

supplied_demand wrote: post #570
drdeca wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can say that I think my past use of pornography has harmed me. I haven’t used it in over 2 years, but I still on a daily basis observe the effects it had on me. Others might argue that it is only because of my views that the effects are “harmful”, but I think they are wrong.

Can you clarify how it “harmed” you? You didn’t quite answer that question.

I’m against censorship, well, except for stuff that would already be illegal.

But as to the potential harm, I recommend “Homemade” by Sebadoh.

Example verse: “There’s still pictures in my mind. I’ve been addicted all this time. It taught me everything I know. Tell me girl, did it leave me cold?”

We don’t need to ban porn. We need better sex ed, ideally starting at home.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#732

Post by mettamage »

gspencley wrote: post #207
RankingMember wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Puritanical origins of the US reverberate to this day. While coming for "freedom of religion" sounds like a noble origin story, the context was that they wanted the freedom to practice a much stricter, restrictive form of religion than that allowed by the Church of England.

I'm not so sure you can point the finger at the USA for this. I ran an online porn website for almost 20 years. For 15 years it was my primary source of income. I'm in Canada which, compared to the USA is extremely progressive. In 2022, after a decade of doing business with a certain bank as this business, never having hidden anything about what we did, my wife and I received an urgent, signature required, overnighte…

While I'm not big on crypto. This is, in part, why Bitcoin exists and why it was created.

I'm not sure if Bitcoin is the right answer due to the 51% attack vulnerability. And a network of miners where everyone can join in principle sounds pretty yolo, but it seems the be the one of the few organizations that exist outside of government? At least, it does in principle, the fact that the whole crypto industry is a mix of scams and recreation of the actual finance industry isn't helping that case, but a part of it definitely still exists outside of it.

We need more digital systems that exist outside of governments. I'm not sure if it's feasible, but stuff like this is egregious.

I wonder what our view on all of this is in a 1000 years. People in the future probably look at us in disbelief with how we practiced our ethics.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#733

Post by docmars »

ben_w wrote: post #241
can16358p wrote: post #105

What is wrong with these people who try to block certain content? Don't like porn? Don't buy it. Simple as that. No one, including governments or payment processors, should be in the position to decide whether a platform can sell something or not. I wish there was a payment processor who was brave enough to say a big fucking NO to censorship.

> Don't like porn? Don't buy it. Simple as that. The claim isn't "we don't like it", the claim is "this is damaging to society". I don't agree with such things in many cases (and many people disagree with me when I'm the one saying something is damaging to society), but it's important to note the difference or you will always be arguing against something other than their claim. > No one, including governments or paym…

The other common (valid) argument is that it's easy for children to access this content because they're already using Steam and unless they have mature content filters enabled, it's already trivial to bypass age gates by lying.

That said, I don't agree with censorship and especially by payment processors of all groups. The slippery slope is very concerning for adults who would enjoy any other category of content that are targeted by activist groups. Collective Shout has a history attacking media falling outside the porn bubble.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#734

Post by mango7283 »

williamscales wrote: post #465
Beijinger wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this American culture? You can watch soft porn as long as you can claim it is not porn? The Spartacus Series comes to mind. Gore and Porn. But sure, it is "history"

A lot of the moralizing pressure groups are also against sexual content on TV (at least historically they have been). One of the slippery slopes here would be that initially they go after smaller players and then work their way up. Would they ultimately go after Amazon or Warner Bros? It’s not totally clear to me that they wouldn’t.

I said this on the other thread, it's obvious they don't yet have the clout to go after big titles like GoT or GTA yet, and it would be a losing strategy for them to do so. Hence why they are going after battles they can win first.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#735

Post by wutwutwat »

Telemakhos wrote: post #725
ben_w wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't like porn? Don't buy it. Simple as that. The claim isn't "we don't like it", the claim is "this is damaging to society". I don't agree with such things in many cases (and many people disagree with me when I'm the one saying something is damaging to society), but it's important to note the difference or you will always be arguing against something other than their claim. > No one, including governments or paym…

> It's kinda the job of the government to decide such things; In some countries, maybe. In the US, there were concerted attempts (like the First Amendment to the Constitution) to prevent that from being the government's job, because of the fear that government would use that job to suppress dissent and coerce opinions. If payment processors are picking up that job, and doing so in a coordinated manner that doesn't al…

> that government would use that job to suppress dissent and coerce opinions.

Thank baby jebus that this sort of thing never happens. Can you imagine if our government were to, for instance, threaten to deport our own citizens, publicly, for disagreeing with the government. That would be a fucking shit show! Thank you, first amendment!

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#736

Post by aprilthird2021 »

esseph wrote: post #530
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the same as an online store. There is a way for people to know kids are in a place they shouldn't be or to deny them access to adult content in real life. In Steam, there isn't

Adult content on steam is marked as such very clearly. Under Community Content Preferences, you'll see an option for Mature Content and Adult-Only Sexual Content. You'll also be preventing from accessing mature content depending on the filters in your account settings, and in the Family Management section of steam, for Family Shared Libraries.

So what? A kid can still go get adult content without anyone else knowing or seeing. Most parents aren't able to set the family settings on Steam or even know their kid knows what Steam is.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#737

Post by Saline9515 »

martin-t wrote: post #726
Saline9515 wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issues you are talking about are not "society-wide" issues requiring compliance of others. A better example would be to consider that pre-op transgender people, namely MtF, can share the same spaces that were reserved to biological women. For instance in sport. If I'm a woman and now I have to compete with a biological man in MMA because society chose that it's the new normal, yes, I'm going to suffer from it. If…

I agree with the trans example because 1) it's a great example of one individual being allowed to do something that directly harms another individual; 2) it's fairly easy to prove that someone who grew up with male bone and muscle structure does not suddenly get the female structure because of a reassignment surgery or hormones. I am all for letting people do what they want with their bodies but their freedom stops a…

The problem with this kind of pure hedonistic thinking is that it negates that societies exist because of cooperation of individuals and not just as an aggregate of humans.

According to your thinking, no one can "force" medical faculties to say that now anyone can buy a surgical doctor degree for 10$, that said if you have to get urgent surgery you'll pay for the consequences as the "doctor" who'll operate won't be qualified.

This is why we need basic rules, norms and constraints that allows us to reach a better optimum than the free-for-all that you recommend. It's also a question of personal values: I value more living in a CSAM-free society, than one where pedos can watch it freely. Amishes value being in a highly religious and low-tech society than giving birth without pain or having air conditioning.

I agree that leaving the society should be possible (emigration, for instance, as the Amishes did). But each society has its local optimum, so you'll have to choose with different constraints. You can for instance go to Russia where it's legal to own and watch CSAM, but with other constraints.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#738

Post by aprilthird2021 »

plaguuuuuu wrote: post #654
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the same as an online store. There is a way for people to know kids are in a place they shouldn't be or to deny them access to adult content in real life. In Steam, there isn't

If kids are on steam they're also on... ya know... the internet. It's not complicated to realise that this achieves none of the stated objectives

Yes that's my point. The Internet does not have the kind of separation or age-checking that real life has, and maybe that hasn't been good for kids or adults

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#739

Post by the_af »

rustystump wrote: post #455
the_af wrote: post #107

In discussions about this topic, in almost every place I see them, lots of people (against this censorship) are going "I don't play this kind of games" or "I don't personally care about tentacle fetish" (or whatever). I don't get this. Let's say it openly: what's the problem with sex and nudity in games? Why is it so unacceptable -- that even people against the censorship must loudly proclaim it's not "their thing" -…

It isnt sex and nudity in games but the other “content” people gloss over that is bundle in. The other context is that global companies must cater to multiple countries cultures which conflict so they take the path of least resistance.

To be honest, the "other content" seems to be an excuse.

I don't buy the "multiple countries' cultures" excuse because this seems to be spearheaded by conservative groups from the Christian anglosphere, the same culture that produces these same games to begin with; and also: other cultures forbid depictions of explicit violence, alcohol, women without their heads covered or publicly disagreeing with their husbands, etc. I don't see a push to ban games which depict alcohol consumption or independent women, do you?

Let's call a spade a spade, and recognize this for what it is.

Also: there's absolutely nothing wrong with erotica in games. Just place it behind the same safety checks as violent games. If those don't work, then they also don't work for violent games, in which case: shall we ban all games with violence?

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#740

Post by citrin_ru »

SilverElfin wrote: post #305

Regulate Visa and MasterCard and the rest. As utility services, they should not have the ability to ban or deny service to any payment that is not clearly illegal. Or we should create a public alternative with private transactions.

I'm afraid regulators are happy with the current situation when they can make a phone call and Visa/MC will block whatever people in government don't like (e. g. porn), in exchange state allows Visa/MC to rake up fees.
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