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The $25k car is going extinct?

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Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#731

Post by kube-system »

yks wrote: post #639
matwood wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great comment because I wondering the same thing. Do people not do any of those things on their own anymore? At a minimum, changing the oil was something I did with my dad as a kid. The hardest thing I've done was probably change a starter. ICE's are conceptually pretty simple. Anyone who has built a computer should be able to do basic car maintenance if they want to. The electronics is what makes newer cars more com…

If you want to sell a few year old used car, the paper trail of the professionally done service is a bonus.

Maybe private party, but I've saved this stuff up before and dealers DGAF.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#732

Post by insane_dreamer »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #429
puzzlingcaptcha wrote: post #261

You can still buy a new subcompact car (like a Renault Clio or Skoda Fabia) in Europe for under 20k EUR. The more interesting question is why these cars disappeared in the US. And while many of the factors discussed here are true for both EU and US (inflation, interest rates, manufacturer profit margins etc) I am surprised no one mentioned the 'SUV loophole' of US regulations that effectively boosted the SUVs (off-ro…

> I am surprised no one mentioned the 'SUV loophole' of US regulations that effectively boosted the SUVs (off-road vehicles are classified as non-passenger automobiles with everything that entails, notably much less stringent emission standards) and made the small cars unprofitable to make in comparison. This has become the irrelevant part because "does it have an electric motor in the powertrain" has become more imp…

> Hybrids have a lower TCO

not sure about this; hybrids require maintaining both an ICE and a electric motor/battery

The Prius may be an exception but that model has been around for a very long time.

A lot depends on gas prices, of course.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#733

Post by jeroenhd »

gmac wrote: post #345
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true that affordable European models are disappearing. The average mid-range offering from, say, Volkswagen, has become quite surprisingly expensive. But this is why Chinese cars are taking over in Europe. Half the new cars I see are from Geely, BYD, Chery, etc. These average about 20,000-25,000 EUR new. My own opinion, having looked into the matter a bit, is that you'd have to be insane to buy a Volkswagen or B…

There are cheaper European cars than VW (and why compare with their 'average mid-range offering'?). The new (and widely liked) Renault 5 EV starts at around €21K, for instance. Probably a bit smaller than something made in China for the same money, but not worlds apart. https://www.renault.fr/vehicules-electriques/r5-e-tech-elect...

You can't really compare prices for "European cars" like that without specifying the country you're buying in. When I go to Renault's website, the starting price is €24990. Prices vary country by country, as do incentives, subsidies, and taxes.

Still a €25k car, but that's still a $29k car.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#734

Post by alephnerd »

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #722
wsc981 wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2024 Toyota in Thailand introduced a cheap pick-up that is a bit under 15.000 USD when THB is converted to USD. I think it's rather neat - the basic model is /very/ basic, but lots of options to customize. https://www.toyota.co.th/en/model/hilux_champ?tab=commercial...

Why can't we get these in the US? This kind of simple utilitarian vehicle is exactly what I'm looking for.

Toyota uses a separate platform called IMV [0] in developing countries that doesn't meet safety standards in EU, Canada, Japan, the US, or the UK.

A lot of safety features such as around crumple zones or even airbags (in the case of the Toyota Champ) don't exist in the IMV platform.

Australia allows them (excluding the Champ), but they watered down their car safety standards in order to seal FTAs with ASEAN (2009), China (2015), and India (2022), leading to the last Australian automotive factory shutting down in 2017.

Once you start adding those safety features (and build the associated testing infra), costs end up comparable to those in Central Europe - as can be seen with the domestic and international prices of Western-oriented export models from China (Zeekr X/Volvo XC30) or India (Toyota Hyryder/Toyota Urban Cruiser).

[0] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_IMV_platform

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#735

Post by arrozconcosas »

tlogan wrote: post #566

Strange article based on incorrect information. My son and I are buying car and there are so many under 25k. In total there are 12 new models. Adjusted to inflation things did not change a lot in last 20 years (in 2005 there were 10 models less than 15k). - 2025 Nissan Versa – Starting at $18,330 - 2025 Hyundai Venue – Starting at $21,395 - 2025 Kia Soul – Starting at $20,490 - 2025 Nissan Sentra – Starting at $21,59…

The answer is to buy a car off lease, that has 20,000 miles on it and is 20-40% cheaper than the new price. It is nearly identical to a new car and has 90% of its useful life remaining.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#736

Post by kube-system »

LUmBULtERA wrote: post #637
mlinhares wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are market dynamics here as well, Americans don’t want to buy a car like the Celerio, most brands have equivalent cars selling in developing countries and Europe but they don’t bring them here because Americans mostly want to buy SUVs.

Except Americans are not offered a $10k new car, so it's impossible to know they won't buy them.

You could get a Mirage on discount at many dealer's lots for 10k just a few years ago, they weren't hot sellers. They were selling at 4% of the volume of the Camry. Drive one and it's immediately obvious why Americans weren't buying them.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#737

Post by knowaveragejoe »

taneliv wrote: post #504
BanterTrouble wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am still a somewhat of a novice. Your friend is right IMO. Do something simple first. Like a broken piece of trim, replace a light bulb, change the wiper blades yourself and build yourself up. I had repaired bicycles/motorcycles before hand. Past that. I literally go on YouTube and watch someone do the task I intend on doing. I have the service manual downloaded for the car (people dump scans of the manuals online…

A word of warning. Usually these things are simple, but not always. Either way, you'll get your hands dirty, and mind off other things. The YT video for changing my cars' front light bulbs was less than two minutes. After half an hour and a lot of scratches / bruises, I thought I got it done. Started the car, checked the light goes on and off. Scrub hands from dust and dirt, be happy. Mandatory inspection two months…

For what it's worth, headlight alignment is not something a lot of people think about or even realize is a thing - it's just changing bulbs, right?

With any DIY car repair, you always run the risk of things like this, where you don't-know-what-you-don't-know. But it's still worth the ride and the lesson, imo.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#738

Post by knowaveragejoe »

throwaway173738 wrote: post #690
ryandrake wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube is fantastic if you already diagnosed the problem and know what part you need to replace. You just follow along with the video, pausing while you go. It’s perfect. YouTube is kind of shit for diagnosis, though. Most of the videos just gloss over it. “Hey guys! So, my fuel pump is dead, so here’s a video on how to replace it!” Ok, thanks, but how did you figure out it was the fuel pump? Not a lot of YouTube co…

You need two things for your engine to run: fuel flow, and spark. If it starts but doesn’t run everything follows from there. If your starter motor doesn’t turn it over start there instead.

You also need air and compression! And if you want the engine to run longer than a few minutes, cooling.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#739

Post by thorin »

taneliv wrote: post #504
BanterTrouble wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am still a somewhat of a novice. Your friend is right IMO. Do something simple first. Like a broken piece of trim, replace a light bulb, change the wiper blades yourself and build yourself up. I had repaired bicycles/motorcycles before hand. Past that. I literally go on YouTube and watch someone do the task I intend on doing. I have the service manual downloaded for the car (people dump scans of the manuals online…

A word of warning. Usually these things are simple, but not always. Either way, you'll get your hands dirty, and mind off other things. The YT video for changing my cars' front light bulbs was less than two minutes. After half an hour and a lot of scratches / bruises, I thought I got it done. Started the car, checked the light goes on and off. Scrub hands from dust and dirt, be happy. Mandatory inspection two months…

Lightbulbs are horrendous these days. On my first car they were like changing a room light bulb, you just reached in and changed the bulb. More recent cars I've had to take the battery out or pull out the whole headlight assembly. It's good to have an idea of how the bits of the car fit together and the main components but significant maintenance is only for hobbyists or people with a lot of time on their hands.

When I was first driving I went through how to change a wheel with my dad and also brake blocks, oil changes that kind of thing. Even my dad who has rebuilt engines from scratch normally goes to the mechanic for everything now.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#740

Post by ajmurmann »

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #722
wsc981 wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2024 Toyota in Thailand introduced a cheap pick-up that is a bit under 15.000 USD when THB is converted to USD. I think it's rather neat - the basic model is /very/ basic, but lots of options to customize. https://www.toyota.co.th/en/model/hilux_champ?tab=commercial...

Why can't we get these in the US? This kind of simple utilitarian vehicle is exactly what I'm looking for.

In addition to what the sibling points out, in this case of a light pickup truck the chicken tax also applies which adds 25% tariff: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
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